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Nagaoka MP-500H Fiasco

D

Decibel_116

AK Subscriber
I decided to try a Nagaoka MP-500H on one of my Technics SL-1200Gs. I purchased the combination package that includes a Nagaoka headshell with the cartridge pre-mounted. When I went to mount this combination to the tonearm, I had to use the large accessory counterweight to balance the arm for the first time ever. Now, I have mounted many different cartridge/headshell combinations over the years on Technics tonearms. Never have I encountered such a strange scenario - at least not with a medium compliance cartridge. So, I try to play a test record. No right channel. What? This is a brand new item, right? I checked the connections and they all passed a visual inspection. I sent it back to the dealer for replacement.

I called the dealer to check on the replacement. The "technician" found out a wire was not connected. So the dealer sent it back to me. This time the right channel works. The problem is it sounds like a$$. Like a worn out stylus. I tried moving the cartridge to my original Technics headshell (which should be a much better match to the cartridge compliance). Still sounds like a$$. I weighed the headshell provided and it weighs 17.6 grams. What??? Something is wrong here. Why would Nagaoka provide such a heavyweight headshell for this kind of cartridge? I'm thinking the package was tampered with. Has anyone else come across this issue before with Nagaoka or one of its dealers?
 
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I actually think the "technician" nailed it and that you've misdiagnosed it. The fact is the right channel came back and I very much doubt this means an internal wire inside the cart was dealt with. The relatively heavy HS goes together with a low compliance cart to be mounted on tonearms bordering the higher eff. mass spectrum. I don't think this is a very good match to begin with - but the fine line tip requires meticulous alignment and the specs do mention a 30 hour break in.
 
Something definitely doesn't sound right regarding the headshell - the user manual lists it as 13.5 g. What is the reputation of the dealer?
 
Describe in detail what exactly sounds "bad". Further, was this a factory cart + headshell job, or was it one of those things that LPG or TTN rigs up? If the latter they may have used whatever headshell they had on hand instead of the proper one for that cart. BTW the compliance of these Nagaoka carts is a lot higher than folks think - between 18-22 CU.
 
Decibel_116 said:
I decided to try a Nagaoka MP-500H on one of my Technics SL-1200Gs. I purchased the combination package that includes a Nagaoka headshell with the cartridge pre-mounted. When I went to mount this combination to the tonearm, I had to use the large accessory counterweight to balance the arm for the first time ever. Now, I have mounted many different cartridge/headshell combinations over the years on Technics tonearms. Never have I encountered such a strange scenario - at least not with a medium compliance cartridge. So, I try to play a test record. No right channel. What? This is a brand new item, right? I checked the connections and they all passed a visual inspection. I sent it back to the dealer for replacement.

I called the dealer to check on the replacement. The "technician" found out a wire was not connected. So the dealer sent it back to me. This time the right channel works. The problem is it sounds like a$$. Like a worn out stylus. I tried moving the cartridge to my original Technics headshell (which should be a much better match to the cartridge compliance). Still sounds like a$$. I weighed the headshell provided and it weighs 17.6 grams. What??? Something is wrong here. Why would Nagaoka provide such a heavyweight headshell for this kind of cartridge? I'm thinking the package was tampered with. Has anyone else come across this issue before with Nagaoka or one of its dealers?
Click to expand...

I've tried an MP-500 on a Technics 1200. If "a$$ sounding" = muddy or unclear, I'd say there's something wrong with the tracking setup. Maybe, the azimuth or vertical tracking angle... or both. :idea:

I didn't like the MP-500, because it was a little too bight and "clinical sounding" out of the box. You know, a tad too sterile. However in my brief experience, the Nagaoka has a clean, clear sound to high frequencies. Maybe, at the expense of a warm midrange. I like the MP-200 sound better. At least, on my Technics. :)

Nagaoka MP-500 refitted (2) small.jpg
 
I don't have any experience with the MP-500 (nothing that expensive) but from my experience with the MP-110 I'd say load capacitance is a factor to consider. I found that the MP-110 sounded muffled with a low capacitive load - that is, with a phono-stage capacitance of 50pF (but you have to add in cable capacitance to get the total load). With a phono-stage capacitance of 220pF, it sounded a lot better with clearer highs, although this takes the capacitance beyond the manufacturer's recommended range.
 
If the cart headshell doesn't match the description from the dealer just arrange for a refund or replacement. I imagine the purchase was made online with a card, so hopefully there is a more powerful option for a refund if you cannot get cooperation from the dealer.

If there was no description of the actual headshell, seek a verification that the stylus is in good shape. That might not be so easy (microscopic inspection), but short of a refund or replacement based on 100% confidence that the stylus is in optimal position and still sounds awful, I don't know where you turn.

Further, there is a difference between "sounds like ass" and "not sure I like the sound". It sounds like the OP is experienced enough to know the difference, but words aren't always used with the same connotation as the reader expects.
 
mackat said:
Something definitely doesn't sound right regarding the headshell - the user manual lists it as 13.5 g. What is the reputation of the dealer?
Click to expand...

Very reputable dealer. In fact, the dealer is willing to do an exchange for a different one that appears to have the correct headshell. Hopefully, this resolves the issue(s).
 
benricci said:
How are you aligning the cartridge? We have no info on how you've set up the cartridge, which needs to be pretty exact for this stylus type.
Click to expand...

I spent time doing all the requisite alignment tasks and adjustment. I even checked the battery on the Fozgometer.
 
patient_ot said:
Describe in detail what exactly sounds "bad". Further, was this a factory cart + headshell job, or was it one of those things that LPG or TTN rigs up? If the latter they may have used whatever headshell they had on hand instead of the proper one for that cart. BTW the compliance of these Nagaoka carts is a lot higher than folks think - between 18-22 CU.
Click to expand...

This is a supposedly a factory setup MP500H (H is for the headshell included model). The dealer suggested her exchange it for another one that appears to have the correct headshell as in the photos and weighing 13.5 grams. I emailed Nagaoka and they told me since Jelco is not supplying headshells anymore, this may have been a substitution at the factory. I don't know about that, but I understand that Jelco is out of business now.
 
Crab33 said:
I don't have any experience with the MP-500 (nothing that expensive) but from my experience with the MP-110 I'd say load capacitance is a factor to consider. I found that the MP-110 sounded muffled with a low capacitive load - that is, with a phono-stage capacitance of 50pF (but you have to add in cable capacitance to get the total load). With a phono-stage capacitance of 220pF, it sounded a lot better with clearer highs, although this takes the capacitance beyond the manufacturer's recommended range.
Click to expand...

This is not a capacitance issue. I think it is a combination of a stylus issue and a compliance mismatch. The frequency response seems fine. It has a serious problem with sibillance. Sibillance that is not present with several other cartridges such as an ART9, ZYX RS1000, AT150MLX, Shure V15IVmr which I compared to the MP-500 after having the issue.
 
Tiver said:
If the cart headshell doesn't match the description from the dealer just arrange for a refund or replacement. I imagine the purchase was made online with a card, so hopefully there is a more powerful option for a refund if you cannot get cooperation from the dealer.

If there was no description of the actual headshell, seek a verification that the stylus is in good shape. That might not be so easy (microscopic inspection), but short of a refund or replacement based on 100% confidence that the stylus is in optimal position and still sounds awful, I don't know where you turn.

Further, there is a difference between "sounds like ass" and "not sure I like the sound". It sounds like the OP is experienced enough to know the difference, but words aren't always used with the same connotation as the reader expects.
Click to expand...

I sent it back to the dealer for a replacement at his suggestion. Hopefully this situation will resolve soon. I should have been a little more specific about what the SQ issues were. Not my best post for sure. I was frustrated and had about ten other things going on at the same time. I will try to do better....;)
 
Decibel_116 said:
I sent it back to the dealer for a replacement at his suggestion. Hopefully this situation will resolve soon. I should have been a little more specific about what the SQ issues were. Not my best post for sure. I was frustrated and had about ten other things going on at the same time. I will try to do better....;)
Click to expand...
The odd choice of headshell never made sense to me. The cart is actually higher compliance than they specify and a 13.5g headshell is way to heavy even for the compliance they specify. I was never that impressed with my mp500, until I fitted it to a light Technics headshell, then it sounded less mudy and opened right up. Headshell is good quality, my opinion is save it for another cart like a Denon or something that needs a heavy headshell.
Chris
 
cafe latte said:
The odd choice of headshell never made sense to me. The cart is actually higher compliance than they specify and a 13.5g headshell is way to heavy even for the compliance they specify. I was never that impressed with my mp500, until I fitted it to a light Technics headshell, then it sounded less mudy and opened right up. Headshell is good quality, my opinion is save it for another cart like a Denon or something that needs a heavy headshell.
Chris
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking. The measured compliance values I have seen are around 22cm x 10-6. The owner's manual states the headshell is 9.5 grams. Yet, online it is quoted to be 13.5. The one I received was 17.6 grams. Obviously, Nagaoka changed some things without updating the documentation. Even with the KAB fluid damper on the tonearm, it is nowhere close to correct matching. If I had know this was going to be the case, I would have just ordered the cartridge by itself. I will probably mount the replacement on one of my spare Technics headshells and keep the headshell for another, more appropriate cartridge. I am curious how this happened in the first place. They should know better as the manufacturer. With Jelco out of business, they will have to source the headshells elsewhere (if they continue to offer that option.) This may have been the early consequences of supplier problems.
 
Decibel_116 said:
This is not a capacitance issue. I think it is a combination of a stylus issue and a compliance mismatch. The frequency response seems fine. It has a serious problem with sibillance. Sibillance that is not present with several other cartridges such as an ART9, ZYX RS1000, AT150MLX, Shure V15IVmr which I compared to the MP-500 after having the issue.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are on a path to get the problem resolved. I bought my MP-500 used with just over 100 hours on it so there weren't any break-in issues but I found the cart too clinical at first. I read the TNT Audio article ( https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/nagaoka_mp11_e.html) on the MP-11, and while Nagaokas are kind of hybrid MI that shouldn't be effected by capacitance, I bumped up the capacitance to 500pf as noted in the article. Problem solved. While it is still detailed the cart didn't have that edge that can cause sibilance.

I've only used the MP-500 on my AR XB but I used a fairly heavy headshell, a Yamamoto Cherry HS-2, that weighs in at 10.5gr. No issues with this combo on this arm (approx 12gr effective mass) given the cart compliance is near or just over 20cu. Hopefully you will be able to dial in the replacement cartridge.
 
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