New Cartridge and looping at very end of some records.

[patient_ot]

Well to your first comment, this phenomenon did not occur till I installed a new Cart to the tone arm. It happened to be a P-mount on an L shaped adapter with the stock head-shell.

What turntable are we talking about here? Those adapters can cause problems with some turntables. Other people have no issue with them. I generally shy away from them, personally.

The kind of level I am using is a small one with one bubble. I have used it at 4 points on the turntable and determined that it is quite leveled from all angles.

The four corners of the plinth? That is why I said check the platter itself, not just the plinth. I also would use a torpedo or long level instead.

One thing I also need to fiddle with more is the tone arm height adjustment feature. It's tricky because my apartment is lop sided (which is why I needed to level the turntable to begin with). But I will use a ruler to make sure it is proper height at both ends.

Right, since you know this, get a better level. Working with the tonearm high or cue lift is also a good idea, consult your manual on the proper adjustments.

This is the first I have heard of art protractors. Where can I purchase one for a modest price?

You can get one for basically free. Download the Conrad Hoffman arc template generator program. You will need to input your tonearm specs before printing the arc protractor. You will also need to check that it is printed to the proper scale, otherwise, no good. If you cannot print it to scale at home, take the PDF to a copy shop and have them do it for you. Once you get it right and are 100% sure it is correct, you can have it laminated or printed on cardstock to make it more durable.

 

[WaynerN]

Take a picture of the cue and post it, it will tell a thousand words.........

 

[Grenadeslio]

I am having difficulty on getting a visual with "look for a gap between the arm and cueing mechanism when this is happening".

Could you please assist me with a visual representation?

Here's some pics of the cueing mechanism that lifts the arm on my Kenwood. If the mechanism doesn't drop low enough the arm will hit the lift somewhere in its travel and lift the arm slightly causing it to skip. Hope thishelps.

 

[jeffpaletz]

I changed the cartridge on my Technics SL-1650 earlier this year. Some records would loop or skip and some wouldn't. When I put the original cartridge back on the records that skipped with the new cartridge, they played fine with the old one. I have two headshells so I could easily switch between cartridges only needed to balance the arm between cartridge swaps.

As others have posted above, the problem was the cue lift bar was too high so at the beginning of records that were thin, the arm would hang up on the cue bar. I lowered the cue bar slightly and that solved the problem.

When you play a record that skips (loops as you call it) look at the stylus when it skips. I could see the stylus try to move forward with the grove and then jump back. That's how I figure out the arm was not moving forward when pulled forward by the stylus.

Also, increase your tracking force to 1.5 to 2 grams and see if that helps as long as the cue bar height is not causing the problem. It's best to track between the middle and upper end of a cartridges tracking force. You want to be sure the stylus is riding all the way in the groove.

 

[ClayTune]

Thanks for all the great answers guys. I will be back more tomorrow to address all these questions so that I can come to a solution. Time to go do some work in the meantime.

 

[Montycat]

The change in cartridge could easily combine with a cue platform that is a titch high and cause a problem. The tonearm might now angle down a tiny bit more and what cleared before will perhaps just barely touch.

You just have to get down low and look at the gap between arm and platform while the cue lever is in the down position. I betcha it touches when near the label.

 

[Mr.White]

Before you settled on it being the incompatibility of the P-mount and the tone-arm, did you try any optimization tricks?

I am fairly adept at setting up turntables and I tried everything possible to make it work. When it wasn't problematic it sounded amazing. The cart in question is an Audio-Technica AT132EP with what I believe is the original .2X.7 nude elliptical stylus. I played a dozen or so LPs and 4 of them would skip in the same places each time. The beginning of Estimated Prophet on Terrapin Station is one example. The results were even worse with the VTF correctly set, I only got the results that I did by increasing the recommended VTF 1.5 grams heavier than recommended. Not good. I really wanted this to work but it wasn't happening. Anti-skate adjustments, re-leveling, VTA adjustments, nothing enabled me to properly dial her in. I'll just save the cart for a future p-mount project. It's apparently not a common cart and the stylus profile is no longer in production even as an aftermarket copy.

 

[ClayTune]

Here is a image of the cue lever guys.

The tone arm is all the way at the end of the record at the spindle and the cue arm is down all the way.

So, does this remove that as a potential issue?

 

[ClayTune]

And if so, what is the next thing to look to?

 

[ClayTune]

I also re-calibrated the tone arm and it appeared that the counter weight was about a quarter of a gram off. I also calibrated the antiskate and tried to be more mindful of when the tone arm is "retreating" upon up cuing. I got it to the best point I could with that regard which seems to have the cart centered just about half way through the record.

I am now listening to "Cords" By Synergy, A project by Larry Fast. And I am hearing all kinds of goodness at the moment. I will report again later and let you guys know if it loops at the end of side 1.

 

[Montycat]

Here is a image of the cue lever guys.

The tone arm is all the way at the end of the record at the spindle and the cue arm is down all the way.

So, does this remove that as a potential issue?

It sure does. That's piles of clearance.

That leaves bearings or wires binding, or possibly the headshell leads themselves are touching in the record. That at least should be easy to see and fix.

 

[ClayTune]

It sure does. That's piles of clearance.

That leaves bearings or wires binding, or possibly the headshell leads themselves are touching in the record. That at least should be easy to see and fix.

Great.

One day, one potential cause out of the way.
I will report back on the other variables when I know what I am doing.

Also, I am expecting that digital tracking gauge in the mail any day now.

I will let you guys know what it reads vs what it appears to read when I get it.

 

[tnsilver]

And if so, what is the next thing to look to?

The TA in the pic appears to have a rather steep angle (like an air liner on decent) in relation to the platter. It could be a photo illusion but by the way it appears, it is far from the optimal parallel position. I would not be surprised if the front of the finger grip comes in contact with the vinyl and I am quite positive the geometry of that tonearm can be improved. This, of-course, doesn't discount all the other aforementioned potential TA binding causes.

 

[pfcs49]

Next? tnsilver is right about the tonearm tube having a lot of down angle-at least it looks so.
Lets see a shot of that arm from the side-at the arms height-while it's resting on a record as well as a good photo(s) the cartridge on the record showing it's attitude, front and side at disc level.

You should eliminate friction, etc:
If you can zero the tracking force (no anti-scate either) so the arm "floats" you'll be able to see any binding or tension on the arm. You should be able to move it with a gentle blowing of your breath, left and right and watching it wobble up and down, confirming no binding (extant the possibility that the cuing mechanism is interfering near the platter, although with no TF, I wouldn't hesitate to leave the platter empty, even remove the mat, and explore what happens to it's freedom when it goes that low, platter stationary, 0 downforce, only your "wind" driving it.

 

[ClayTune]

Hey guys,

My tracking force gauge came.
It turns out that my tracking force was off by .5 grams and I adjusted it properly while anti-skate was off.

Then I had the anti-skate set to glide smooth right down the center of the blank record without so much as a single wobble.

I am currently listening to one of the records that looped at the end. Will record back soon on results.