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New into vinyl, some questions

KayM

KayM

New Member
Hey all,

New to the forums and new to vinyl. Have some quick questions and hope y'all can steer me in the right direction. Look forward to enjoying these great forums.

I received a long awaited Teac TN-300 table for Christmas and am playing around with it using my Yamaha R-S500 on a pair of Kef R300s. Sound is great but I'm reading that a great pre-amp will make the setup even better. I've also ordered a Shure M97xE to replace the AT cartridge.

I'm looking into the Cambridge Audio Azure 551P as well as the Parasound P5. Quite the different in price and obviously the Parasound is better but why?

Would appreciate some insight on what (great) pre-amp to add to my system.

Ultimately, will be getting a McIntosh Tube amp but this is down the road.
 
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Hi and welcome!

A great "everything" will make the setup even better, from cartridge to turntable to preamp to amp to speakers to cabling.

IMO, the first upgrade when you decide to go that route is the speakers, followed by the cartridge, as these two components are the most revealing in the chain.

Ultimately, when you decide to go for the McIntosh, you may want to consider upgrading the turntable itself. So, if I was you, since you like what you have now, I would stay the course with your present system and use the money you are considering spending on a preamp for later down the road .... when you get that Mac amp. I can assure you it will come in handy then. ;)

You're going to read allot of things from many people, and opinions are just that, opinions. Ultimately it comes down to what you like, and not the rest of the crowd.

Enjoy!
 
Your system looks to have the right balance to me, so I wouldn't change anything, except the cartridge as you've already decided.

I doubt those budget preamps are better than that in the Yamaha.
 
The 551P is a low-cost phono stage for use when your system doesn't include one, but you have two available, one in your Teac turntable and another in your Yamaha receiver. The Parasound P5 is a well-regarded full-function preamp, but your R-S500 lacks preamp out/amp in jacks to take full advantage of it. You said you planned on getting a McIntosh tube amp. Have you heard this in conjunction with the P5 preamp and your speakers? If you have, and already know this is the route you want to take, then by all means pick up the pieces as you're able. If you haven't, and your final system configuration is still in doubt, I would just enjoy what you have for the present (after all, you did say it sounded great), and not worry about phono stages or preamps til you're ready to replace the Yahama receiver with the anticipated McIntosh amp. Spending money now on a phono stage that you may not need with later separates is, to my thinking, just taking a step backward from where you want to be; just bank the money towards what you really want. By the way, if you like the Parasound P5 preamp, did you give their Halo integrated amp or one of their power amps a listen? I have to admit that I generally prefer using separates from the same company because their sonic strengths are more often complementary rather than competing.

By the way, the specs for your tonearm include that it's designed for cartridges weighing between 3.5 and 6.5 grams. The M97xE is just slightly heavier at 6.6 grams and should be okay, but if you can't back off the counterweight far enough to zero balance the arm, you could use a separate tracking force gauge (such as Shure's own SFG-2) to set the force directly and not bother with zero balancing the arm first.
 
Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone.

Looking into upgrading towards the B&W CM10 next. Speakers are without a doubt the biggest impact maker in a stereos system. Tube amp is probably not the right idea either, will look into McIntosh's regular amps instead.
 
KayM said:
Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone.

Looking into upgrading towards the B&W CM10 next. Speakers are without a doubt the biggest impact maker in a stereos system. Tube amp is probably not the right idea either, will look into McIntosh's regular amps instead.
Click to expand...
Yes don't under estimate the warm sound a mac solid state amp can give you with far more power than a tube setup.
 
B&W CM10

Sensitivity 90dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Nominal impedance 8Ω (minimum 3.1Ω)
Crossover frequencies 350Hz, 4kHz
Recommended amplifier power 30W - 300W into 8Ω on unclipped

For sure I would want a 300 watt plus power amp for head room and give these speakers the power they need.
 
KayM said:
I see a bunch of amazing McIntosh gear :)

What's your pick for best stereo amp under $3k?
Click to expand...
Where are you located?

At that budget and to get big power 300+ watts you would be looking at older pro amps like the
MC2300 around $2000, 300 WPC
MC2500 around $2500, 500 WPC

But these are power amp and you would still need a Preamp
 
4-2-7 said:
Where are you located?

At that budget and to get big power 300+ watts you would be looking at older pro amps like the
MC2300 around $2000, 300 WPC
MC2500 around $2500, 500 WPC

But these are power amp and you would still need a Preamp
Click to expand...

I'm in Los Angeles.
 
I think many people get a bit confused when it comes to how much power they might need to get an acceptable volume level. And many times their is a misconception that it takes hundreds of watts to have what people call head room to reach those levels. I am not saying plenty of power is a bad thing, as it might be needed if your into vibrating the windows and loosening the plaster off the walls, but in most common listening levels those power levels will never be utilized. When a speaker list it's sensitivity rating say 30hz to 35khz at 90 db. it doesn't mean it needs 200 watts to reach that 90 db's on the lower frequencies or the high frequencies. I am pretty sure it means that on average that one watt will provide you with the complete dynamic frequency range with a listening level of 90db. A listening level of 90 db, is actually quite loud which equals a train whistle 500' away, or truck traffic. And 90 - 95db at substained exposures can cause hearing damage. I wouldn't doubt that the tube amp in 427's avatar would be more than enough to provide plenty of listening volume, and some people would prefer the tube amp over SS amps. I think a good practice would be to give a number of amps a listen on those speakers prior to making a purchase. Sometimes specific speakers can compliment specific amps and some experimenting results in the best combination.
 
KayM said:
Thanks for the helpful feedback everyone.

Looking into upgrading towards the B&W CM10 next. Speakers are without a doubt the biggest impact maker in a stereos system. Tube amp is probably not the right idea either, will look into McIntosh's regular amps instead.
Click to expand...

Ummm, IMO your speakers are not your weak spot, but rather the best feature of your current system. Unless you don't like your speakers for some reason, I'd choose electronics as the next step - your first instinct was a better one, just not thought to conclusion maybe. Keep in mind that the most important electronic component in a vinyl system is the phono preamp. For the kind of amp $$ you mention, if your choice doesn't include a phono section, I'd want to aim higher than the Cambridge. OTOH, it's an inexpensive experiment. An educational stepping stone along the way might be an integrated amp in the $1K range, like the Rega Brio R, or something similar.

The Express train to Sonic Nirvana stops only at LOMC & SUT, TVC & Tubeville, and ends on Electrostatic Way. Other routes are possible too, however.

:music:
 
Short answer - don't waste your time looking. The phono stage on the Yamaha is better than the Cambridge, and miles better than the excuse for a phono stage the Parasound has - it's appalling on phono. The Parasound designer has spent time mainly on the excellent line stage inputs, which are very quiet, but has virtually ignored the phono stages, which are noisier than many 1970's amps (and believe me, most were very poor back then).:thumbsdown:
 
sqlsavior said:
Ummm, IMO your speakers are not your weak spot, but rather the best feature of your current system. Unless you don't like your speakers for some reason, I'd choose electronics as the next step - your first instinct was a better one, just not thought to conclusion maybe. Keep in mind that the most important electronic component in a vinyl system is the phono preamp. For the kind of amp $$ you mention, if your choice doesn't include a phono section, I'd want to aim higher than the Cambridge. OTOH, it's an inexpensive experiment. An educational stepping stone along the way might be an integrated amp in the $1K range, like the Rega Brio R, or something similar.

The Express train to Sonic Nirvana stops only at LOMC & SUT, TVC & Tubeville, and ends on Electrostatic Way. Other routes are possible too, however.

:music:
Click to expand...


I agree here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the speakers you have. Your R300's are excellent.
 
Ken Boyd said:
I think many people get a bit confused when it comes to how much power they might need to get an acceptable volume level. And many times their is a misconception that it takes hundreds of watts to have what people call head room to reach those levels. I am not saying plenty of power is a bad thing, as it might be needed if your into vibrating the windows and loosening the plaster off the walls, but in most common listening levels those power levels will never be utilized. When a speaker list it's sensitivity rating say 30hz to 35khz at 90 db. it doesn't mean it needs 200 watts to reach that 90 db's on the lower frequencies or the high frequencies. I am pretty sure it means that on average that one watt will provide you with the complete dynamic frequency range with a listening level of 90db. A listening level of 90 db, is actually quite loud which equals a train whistle 500' away, or truck traffic. And 90 - 95db at substained exposures can cause hearing damage. I wouldn't doubt that the tube amp in 427's avatar would be more than enough to provide plenty of listening volume, and some people would prefer the tube amp over SS amps. I think a good practice would be to give a number of amps a listen on those speakers prior to making a purchase. Sometimes specific speakers can compliment specific amps and some experimenting results in the best combination.
Click to expand...
I just have to disagree with the One Watt crowd, Not in any case I have experienced, a low watt amp driving high watt speaker sound as good as over powering the same speaker. Does the one watt work and the speaker make sound, yes, can the volume get pretty loud, yes.

I'm however talking about transient peaks in the music, and the amp having the capability to handle those peaks with authority and plenty of reserve for 50 watt swings in the music. All the while having better depth and bass response throughout all volume levels.
 
iLUVanalog said:
I agree here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the speakers you have. Your R300's are excellent.
Click to expand...

Excellent if one wants dinky book shelf speakers in a main system. I personally don't like the sound and feel....lack of feel from a small speaker. For some small setup in a bedroom or apartment they can work. The OP looks like they are planning ahead and will at some point elevate their whole system to higher end, larger and more powerful system.
 
The Kefs are high quality speakers and probably the best features of his system. We don't all like, or can afford, huge US boomboxes, you know :)

Also the room has a lot to do with it. My baby Harbeths sound brilliant in small rooms, but a tad lost in larger ones.
 
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