New into vinyl, some questions

[Ken Boyd]

One watt swinging around is usually louder then most people realize, 50 watts swing around on most speakers is usually jamming loud. What speakers do you pair with your MC275 amp, and does it not provide an outstanding performance? Many times people equate higher wattage with being better, while my point is quality wattage is better than quantity, as long as your speakers have an amp that is capable.

 

[iLUVanalog]

Excellent if one wants dinky book shelf speakers in a main system. I personally don't like the sound and feel....lack of feel from a small speaker. For some small setup in a bedroom or apartment they can work. The OP looks like they are planning ahead and will at some point elevate their whole system to higher end, larger and more powerful system.

It all depends on the size of the room. If one were considering using the R300's in a 30' x 30' room, I would recommend something else --- something larger...no-brainer. For a smaller room, you can't go wrong with these "dinky" speakers. And....we're not talking about you and your preferences --- we're trying to help KayM. I'm with grottyash (above).

 

[4-2-7]

It all depends on the size of the room. If one were considering using the R300's in a 30' x 30' room, I would recommend something else --- something larger...no-brainer.

For a smaller room, you can't go wrong with these "dinky" speakers. And....we're not talking about you and your preferences --- we're trying to help KayM. I'm with grottyash (above).

Yes you just made a comment and actually made the same response I was going to make.

It doesn't depend on the size room, it's the listeners preferences. KayM owns the speakers in question and is thinking about larger speakers that they also stated they might be getting. Their choice, I wouldn't recommend any speakers to anyone let alone tell them to keep something they are not happy with.

 

[4-2-7]

One watt swinging around is usually louder then most people realize, 50 watts swing around on most speakers is usually jamming loud. What speakers do you pair with your MC275 amp, and does it not provide an outstanding performance? Many times people equate higher wattage with being better, while my point is quality wattage is better than quantity, as long as your speakers have an amp that is capable.

Ken you keep talking about loudness, I'm not!!! Transient peaks in the music and a amp that can handle it with the given speakers at all volume levels. This typically refers to loud musical peaks, such as a drum hit, that are above the average musical level. 1 watt of amplifier power can be loud, but for very dynamic music you must also have the headroom to reproduce the instantaneous blips of loud sound that last for milliseconds or even just one wave cycle.

As far as my MC275 x 2 bridged mono @ 180 WPC, It totally sucks finding speakers that work great with them. In fact after three years I still haven't really found what I like with them. I keep going back to Sansui SP-5000 or SP-5500 @ 90 watts and 125 watts at 102 db respectively as the best. If you notice that combo is over powering the speakers by at least 70+ watts. That said
IMF RSPM Mk. IV, JBL L250, Martin Logan Sequell II, eat the amps alive but are far better speakers. However this list of speakers all sound better with high watt amps that I have paired them with. The Sansui's even sound far better with the 180 watts of tubes than any amp I have driven them with in the sub 100w class.

 

[Roboturner91]

I wonder how many new vinyl adopters are getting suckered into buying phono preamps that they don't need and that aren't even that good. The one in your Yamaha is very sufficient. No need to worry about that just yet.

 

[4-2-7]

I wonder how many new vinyl adopters are getting suckered into buying phono preamps that they don't need and that aren't even that good. The one in your Yamaha is very sufficient. No need to worry about that just yet.

Well that would be determined on the level of vinyl play back one want to achieve, the level of their system and what cartridge. However at this point the OP doesn't "Need" a sideway move buying a budget stage for a consumer receiver that has a built in stage already.

 

[grottyash]

Yes you just made a comment and actually made the same response I was going to make.

It doesn't depend on the size room, it's the listeners preferences. KayM owns the speakers in question and is thinking about larger speakers that they also stated they might be getting. Their choice, I wouldn't recommend any speakers to anyone let alone tell them to keep something they are not happy with.

I don't understand how you can say that. It does depend on room size, why do you think it does not? Apart from the obvious fact large rooms and small speakers don't go together, neither do large speakers in tiny rooms. Room furnishing also has a big impact - ever tried listening to music in a tiled, empty room, compared with a well furnished, carpeted one?

 

[iLUVanalog]

Well that would be determined on the level of vinyl play back one want to achieve, the level of their system and what cartridge. However at this point the OP doesn't "Need" a sideway move buying a budget stage for a consumer receiver that has a built in stage already.

Agreed.

 

[iLUVanalog]

Yes you just made a comment and actually made the same response I was going to make.

It doesn't depend on the size room, it's the listeners preferences. KayM owns the speakers in question and is thinking about larger speakers that they also stated they might be getting. Their choice, I wouldn't recommend any speakers to anyone let alone tell them to keep something they are not happy with.

KayM did not say he was unhappy with anything. And, at $1800 a pair (according to the KEF online store), the R300's are certainly not cheap.

And sorry dude, but the room absolutely does matter --- although I agree that the person's listening tastes also matter.

I would never consider putting, say, a pair of KEF flagship Muon speakers in a 10' x 10' room.

 

[4-2-7]

KayM did not say he was unhappy with anything. And, at $1800 a pair (according to the KEF online store), the R300's are certainly not cheap.

And sorry dude, but the room absolutely does matter --- although I agree that the person's listening tastes also matter.

I would never consider putting, say, a pair of KEF flagship Muon speakers in a 10' x 10' room.

Well ecsesive is never a good thing but when I made my first comment to you on small speakers, l mention "feeling", a small speaker does not move much air, so you don't feel the pressure. I also don't like head phones either for some of the same reasons. If the op is saying they are looking at other speakers that are larger one would think they are not happy with what they have in sound and or size. Cost does not matter in this regard, anyway our thoughts don't matter and is why my comment where taken by the lead of what the op expressed.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Ken you keep talking about loudness, I'm not!!! Transient peaks in the music and a amp that can handle it with the given speakers at all volume levels. This typically refers to loud musical peaks, such as a drum hit, that are above the average musical level. 1 watt of amplifier power can be loud, but for very dynamic music you must also have the headroom to reproduce the instantaneous blips of loud sound that last for milliseconds or even just one wave cycle.

As far as my MC275 x 2 bridged mono @ 180 WPC, It totally sucks finding speakers that work great with them. In fact after three years I still haven't really found what I like with them. I keep going back to Sansui SP-5000 or SP-5500 @ 90 watts and 125 watts at 102 db respectively as the best. If you notice that combo is over powering the speakers by at least 70+ watts. That said
IMF RSPM Mk. IV, JBL L250, Martin Logan Sequell II, eat the amps alive but are far better speakers. However this list of speakers all sound better with high watt amps that I have paired them with. The Sansui's even sound far better with the 180 watts of tubes than any amp I have driven them with in the sub 100w class.

I talk about loudness because that is basically the primary reason one would need high wattage amps and only if the speakers are not efficient. Remember when a speaker list its efficiency rating that one watt, 90db +/- includes the frequency range listed, so its not like you won't get any hi or low frequencies because rating didn't include transit peaks, that rating of one watt includes those peaks, otherwise you wouldn't have the flat response listed on the specs.

 

[4-2-7]

I talk about loudness because that is basically the primary reason one would need high wattage amps and only if the speakers are not efficient. Remember when a speaker list its efficiency rating that one watt, 90db +/- includes the frequency range listed, so its not like you won't get any hi or low frequencies because rating didn't include transit peaks, that rating of one watt includes those peaks, otherwise you wouldn't have the flat response listed on the specs.

Try reading some of this thread.
http://www.audioaficionado.org/mcintosh-audio/30200-too-much-headroom.html

 

[MarantzDance]

Just wanted to chime in that I agree with Ken Boyd. Wattage is rather deceptive. At normal listening levels you're going to use 1-5 watts. If you wanna bump and wake the neighbors you can crank it up to around 50w.

I power my system on dual 170dc amps and 4 AR58s. At 50 watts it is so damn loud I have to scream to be heard and even then no one can tell what it is I'm screaming, just that I'm screaming something.

Your listening space is going to play a huge role into how this system is going to sound.

300wpc amps are like a 6ft polearm. They're awesome..... unless you're fighting in a closet.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

If your speakers are efficient, the superb McIntosh MC 2505 would be a superb choice to have. The MX 112, MX 113, or MX 114 tuner/preamplifier would be a great partner and around $2,000 would buy you superb examples. The MA 5100 integrated or MAC 1700 receiver are terrific as well and attainable for half that price. I own the MA 5100 (use it in my living room driving Klipsch Chorus speakers) and own the MC 2505-2 and MX 114 (it drives my Dynaco A 25 speakers). These sound very tube like in their voicing. And musical and unfatiguing and still plenty of detail without going overboard.

 

[KayM]

Wow guys just caught all of this. Definitely great advice from everyone and a nice little "argument" going as well.

I've really been spending time listening - since this is what matters most vs. specs and products.

Truth be told, my initial reaction seems to be the right one: replace the amp soon. The R300s are actually fantastic and I love how they sound. The room, while it is massive, does not need to be "filled up", the listening area is only 15' x 15' - now, does sound get lost beyond that - sure. But perhaps it doesn't matter as I'm 12-15' away from the speakers.

I have unfortunately noticed an awful "buzz" when cranking over 2db+ on the Yamaha - with the Camridge 651! It appears it is the Cambridge since everything is grounded, power is fine, speaker cables are top notch, sub is fine... Simply connecting the Cambridge and cranking up the volume gives me this buzz (high pitched 100Hz buzz / insect rasp).

The Cambridge is going back.

But I do have my eyes set on the Parasound Integrated as the next purchase...