New phono preamp from SCHIIT - the Skoll

[willie-aspen]

I made my initial connection with the XLRs, but didn't get to listen much. The Skoll didn't like having both arms connected (lots of ground noise). I've listened a little bit with just the XLR hooked up, but there's no easy way to compensate for the 6db change in output (unless I swap out preamps). More to come.

 

[MisterDK]

@willie-aspen - That’s not good news. I was hoping to have two arms connected, full time.
We shouldn’t have to disconnect one or the other..!

Edit - I knew I saw this somewhere in the Skoll literature. From page 1 of the Skoll manual:



Having two arms connected at the same time shouldn’t incur any audio penalty!
Maybe we should email Schiit and ask about this.

 

[willie-aspen]

I sent them a note over the weekend and haven’t heard back yet.

 

[adnick]

Don’t see that it has dual phono inputs?

 

[willie-aspen]

Ground lug is in the middle. Inputs to the right of it and outputs to the left.

 

[j_loop]

I wonder if sharing a ground lug is an issue. Can you ground one tt somewhere else and see if you still hear it?

There is an input sector switch, yes?

 

[willie-aspen]

I wonder if sharing a ground lug is an issue. Can you ground one tt somewhere else and see if you still hear it?

There is an input sector switch, yes?

There's a switch on the front of the unit to choose the XLR or RCA input.

I'm using a Technics SP15 which has 2 arms mounted on a custom chassis. I may have to experiment with the chassis grounding lug.

 

[adnick]

So it doesn’t have two phono inputs….are you connecting one arm XLR and the other RCA or using some switch box in between?

Andy

 

[L1A1Rocker]

I'm soon to be in the market for a MC phono amp. Can anyone compare this to the Ifi Zen Phono? So far, the Zen is my selection, but this one sounds pretty good too.

 

[MisterDK]

So it doesn’t have two phono inputs….are you connecting one arm XLR and the other RCA or using some switch box in between?

Andy

Andy, it has only one pair of RCA phono inputs and one pair of XLR phono inputs.

You choose which is to be active by switching between ‘em with either the remote, or with a button on front of the unit. Probably not many on the market yet but apparently a few new turntables are coming with XLR plugs. I don’t think it’ll be much trouble to update from RCA and convert to XLR plugs, or just use an XLR to RCA adapter.. I’m enjoying cable making lately so will probably make up needed XLR interconnects - and convert one tonearm to the male XLR.
I haven’t tried the XLR in or out on mine. The problem @willie-aspen mentioned, seems to be a grounding isssue.

 

[rothwellaudio]

With the amount of gain in the clone with 12ax7s it will support many low output MC cartridges like the basic DL 103 without a SUT or headamp, just not something like a 103M

However at that level of gain with the cheap parts of the basic kits, there’s too much noise…they can be made very quite even at the extreme end of their gain with the right parts and tube(s).

I disagree that a valve MM phonostage can be made quiet enough for LOMC cartridges by carefully choosing passive components and selecting valves. Simply having more expensive caps won't affect noise, and the Johnson noise from resistors is a function of resistance regardless of their price. Selecting valves for low noise will help a bit but you can't guarantee the noise won't climb back up after a short time.

I made my initial connection with the XLRs, but didn't get to listen much. The Skoll didn't like having both arms connected (lots of ground noise). I've listened a little bit with just the XLR hooked up, but there's no easy way to compensate for the 6db change in output (unless I swap out preamps). More to come.

If the two turntables were both connected to ground (that's "ground" as in the ground wire of the mains supply) I can see there being a problem. Turntables should be floating, not tied to ground.
I have no idea if that's how your turntables are wired but that's a possible explanation.

 

[adnick]

Andy, it has only one pair of RCA phono inputs and one pair of XLR phono inputs.

You choose which is to be active by switching between ‘em with either the remote, or with a button on front of the unit. Probably not many on the market yet but apparently a few new turntables are coming with XLR plugs. I don’t think it’ll be much trouble to update from RCA and convert to XLR plugs, or just use an XLR to RCA adapter.. I’m enjoying cable making lately so will probably make up needed XLR interconnects - and convert one tonearm to the male XLR.
I haven’t tried the XLR in or out on mine. The problem @willie-aspen mentioned, seems to be a grounding isssue.

So since it doesn’t have 2 phono inputs it’s probably designed to operate either by XLR or RCA connection? That’s supposition, but not without cause (-;

Preamps without multiple phono inputs are more common, I’ve got a few, and use a switch box for those.

Actually even on those with multiple phono inputs I’m using a switch box because of multiple tables connected with multiple arms to the preamp…it’s always somewhat challenging to get every table/arm to play without some hum but it’s very satisfying when achieved


Andy

 

[adnick]

I disagree that a valve MM phonostage can be made quiet enough for LOMC cartridges by carefully choosing passive components and selecting valves. Simply having more expensive caps won't affect noise, and the Johnson noise from resistors is a function of resistance regardless of their price. Selecting valves for low noise will help a bit but you can't guarantee the noise won't climb back up after a short time.

If the two turntables were both connected to ground (that's "ground" as in the ground wire of the mains supply) I can see there being a problem. Turntables should be floating, not tied to ground.
I have no idea if that's how your turntables are wired but that's a possible explanation.

No, that’s not all it takes, this was part of a continuing conversation on the EAR clone builds, it also takes a separate power supply, choke and careful transformer selection with changes in particular resistors and a proper grounding scheme, the above was other considerations that need addressing…The Lencoheaven build thread for the EAR clone is very detailed many have achieved very quite EAR clones when done correctly…

VR
Andy

 

[MisterDK]

If you don’t want to convert your RCA-terminated tonearm ends or make/buy custom cables, this adapter from Hosa may work for you…

 

[rothwellaudio]

No, that’s not all it takes, this was part of a continuing conversation on the EAR clone builds, it also takes a separate power supply, choke and careful transformer selection with changes in particular resistors and a proper grounding scheme, the above was other considerations that need addressing…The Lencoheaven build thread for the EAR clone is very detailed many have achieved very quite EAR clones when done correctly…

Maybe I misunderstood you when you said...

they can be made very quite even at the extreme end of their gain with the right parts and tube(s).

I still disagree that a valve phonostage such as the EAR is suitable for a LOMC cartridge. Tim de Paravicini must have thought the EAR wasn't suitable for LOMC cartridges either, hence he offered a version with onboard step-up transformers.

 

[adnick]

Your interpreting and adding words to my statement — Never used the word “suitable” said it had plenty of gain for many MC cartridges with the right 12AX7 build and can be used for such without a SUT or headamp, but not for extremely low output carts, many of us can do the math for gain required based on cartridge output…maybe not suitable but also not bad, by the time one builds a tricked out clone it’s considerably different than an original EARP

VR
Andy

 

[rothwellaudio]

"Suitable" or "can be used for" or "will support", what's the difference?
Gain is easy to stack up with enough valves but it's signal-to-noise ratio that matters, not absolute gain. Not sure how a thread about a new Schiit mm/mc phonostage turned into a discussion about copies of EAR's valve mm phonostage, but my recommendation to anyone with a typical LOMC cartridge (about 0.4 or 0.5mV output) would be to consider an EAR mm phonostage only if used in conjunction with a suitable SUT or headamp.

 

[adnick]

"Suitable" or "can be used for" or "will support", what's the difference?
Gain is easy to stack up with enough valves but it's signal-to-noise ratio that matters, not absolute gain. Not sure how a thread about a new Schiit mm/mc phonostage turned into a discussion about copies of EAR's valve mm phonostage, but my recommendation to anyone with a typical LOMC cartridge (about 0.4 or 0.5mV output) would be to consider an EAR mm phonostage only if used in conjunction with a suitable SUT or headamp.

Duane started the thread and brought up the EAR clones….Have you tried an EAR clone and Denon DL 103 without a SUT?

You obviously haven’t read the thread, the reason the EAR came up and my previous explanations on other items required to build a truly quiet EAR clone are spoken about within….

The EAR clones are an excellent choice for someone on a budget and they can perform at a very high level, that’s why the OP brought them up.

If one can build themselves they can be much better than the prebuilt offerings, mine with a new components, separate power supply and such was less than $200 excluding tubes, and it’s an exceptional preamp.

Just removed the SUTs form and played a 103R .25mv with the EAR clone and it’s not bad especially below the 90dB levels, and with a low output Grado Sonata .5mv on the other arm, and it’s very good. Not as good as with the appropriate SUTs but certainly acceptable for someone on a budget!

If an individual is wanting to try an LMOC cartridge and have a decent EAR clone (like a VAS basic for less than $250 shipped) they can enjoy the cart at moderate listening volume while saving for a decent SUT.

The combination of EAR clone, Denon AU 320 SUT ( which is a multi arm SUT) and VAS Basic 103 can be had for less than $600.

Introduction of the Sota Pyxi has made it possible to have LOMC combination for about $525 with a VAS 103 but there’s lots of people with EAR clones

Phono enthusiasts are compelled to compare phono preamps especially within a given price range, it’s natural to compare the Skoll, and EAR clone….

No affiliation with VAS or any other dealers or manufacturers, just happy more people have the financial ability to enjoy the world of LOMC carts….



VR
Andy

 

[adnick]

@willie-aspen - That’s not good news. I was hoping to have two arms connected, full time.
We shouldn’t have to disconnect one or the other..!

Edit - I knew I saw this somewhere in the Skoll literature. From page 1 of the Skoll manual:

View attachment 3029410

Having two arms connected at the same time shouldn’t incur any audio penalty!
Maybe we should email Schiit and ask about this.

Duane

Have you hooked up your 2 tables to the Skoll?
.

 

[MisterDK]

@adnick - Not yet, Andy. Need to pick up two of the adapter in post # 114, or make up some cables.