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New (to me) AR2aX speakers are cutting out....Receiver issue or speaker ?

mizmazzle

mizmazzle

Active Member
Morning everybody!! So I have been getting deeper into this game and am in love with my vinyl collection...Decided to up my equipment and bought some fully restored AR2aX speakers. I hooked them up and they sound great in the highs and mids....but the bass is really lacking. My old speakers are a set of Pioneer CS 100's....and to be honest, they sound way better than the Acoustic Researches. I hooked back up the Pioneers and was doubly impressed with them. I again hooked up the AR and then I noticed the balance was not even. Then the sound started cutting out and in when I turned the volume up. Not sure what is going on. Now I am thinking that maybe my receiver is not working properly? I use a JVC VR5511....35 watt per channel As far as I know its never had any work done. Not sure if I have a speaker problem or a receiver problem. But my Pioneers continue to play great with the JVC receiver.....not sure what to do?
 
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Hmm....wish I wasn't so ignorant in the area or electronics rebuilds...It seems to me that the JVC should be able to keep sound flowing without loss. Maybe the crossovers are not getting a steady signal? (I'm sure I am not making any sense here) They worked ok for the first half hour, but seemed to lose bass output over time. I had my bass jacked all the way up and the volume cranked and the bass was not impressive in anyway...
 
The do like power in my experience. Have you adjusted the pots - perhaps cleaning with contact cleaner/Deoxit there before getting intrusive? Another source may be good to try if you can.
 
mizmazzle said:
I had my bass jacked all the way up and the volume cranked and the bass was not impressive in anyway...
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Try the quick/simple/easy...Reverse the wires on just one AR speaker and see if the bass comes back. Maybe in the "restore" one of the pair got reversed.
 
Please don't laugh at me here....I didn't realize it mattered which way the wires attached to the terminals!!
I have adjusted the pots...they do affect the sound.
 
I don't think anyone is laughing. Polarity, meaning the + & -, of both speakers (mainly the woofers) has to match. Otherwise bass suffers. It is a simple thing but also a common mistake.

So when you test as suggested by onemug, reverse the connections to only one speaker and see if bass improves from the pair. It should be a noticeable difference either way, better or worse. He is also saying that it is possible that the wires could mistakenly have been reversed inside during the refurb, in which case wiring according to the markings on the receiver and speakers would be backwards. Trust your ear to decide which way gives the better bass notes. (You might try this same test with the Pioneer speakers to get an idea of what it is that you are listening for.)

As for your original post, I am a little confused because you mention more than one issue: lack of bass with the AR's, and also cutting out.

When you observe the cutting out, is it the entire speaker? just the mid? just the tweeter? (I believe the AR's are 3-way) And it never happens at all with the other speakers?
 
roger2 said:
I don't think anyone is laughing. Polarity, meaning the + & -, of both speakers (mainly the woofers) has to match. Otherwise bass suffers. It is a simple thing but also a common mistake.

So when you test as suggested by onemug, reverse the connections to only one speaker and see if bass improves from the pair. It should be a noticeable difference either way, better or worse. He is also saying that it is possible that the wires could mistakenly have been reversed inside during the refurb, in which case wiring according to the markings on the receiver and speakers would be backwards. Trust your ear to decide which way gives the better bass notes. (You might try this same test with the Pioneer speakers to get an idea of what it is that you are listening for.)

As for your original post, I am a little confused because you mention more than one issue: lack of bass with the AR's, and also cutting out.

When you observe the cutting out, is it the entire speaker? just the mid? just the tweeter? (I believe the AR's are 3-way) And it never happens at all with the other speakers?
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Thanks so much for all the helpful responses. About the cutting out...Just one side (left) was not making sound. Then when I adjusted the volume the sound would cut out then come back on. I unhooked the speakers and rehooked up several times. I never paid attention to the +/- terminals. The wire doesn't have any color to discern between +/- so I didn't realize to follow the + from the receiver all the way to the speaker. I'll def try that when I get home....but yes, the old Pioneers still work without fault. Do the ARs need greater power than the Pioneers to run? It sounds like people are pointing towards the speakers having issues. I wasn't sure if maybe the receiver was not able to power them or if some internals may be failing. But the Pioneers still sound great!

I've only heard and read great things about the ARs....but the bass can't be working properly...it's just not satisfying at all to listen to as is.
 
Speaker wires should have some type of indicator to differentiate + from -. It could be something very subtle. Sometimes one side has a couple of ribs running along the side of the outer insulation, while the other side is smooth. Sometimes one (actual) wire is copper colored while the other is silver colored. Sometimes there are actual "+" and "-" markings on he outside. Probably other ways I have missed. But almost always there is some type of identifier, even on common lampcord (which is often used for speaker wire).

I am not familiar with those Pioneers. But it is very possible the Pioneers are more efficient (i.e. louder with a given amount of power) than the AR's.

Again, multiple questions being discussed:
1) something wrong with receiver?
2) bass issues with AR's?
3) cutting out with AR's?
4) AR's not as loud as Pioneers?

1>>> test with Pioneers, if OK, move left speaker to right side (meaning the right speaker output on the receiver, don't have to physically move the speakers) and vis versa. OK still? Probably not an amp issue. IF you are really cranking the volume knob when playing the AR's then possibly the amp is going into some type of thermal protection, I don't know...
2>>> do listening test with AR's as suggested by onemug (and test same way with Pioneers which are known to be good, just to get a feel for what the differerence in bass output should be when doing this test)
3>>> be aware that cutting out could be whole speaker, just mid, just tweeter, even just woofer if wiring inside is really messed up. You need to identify the problem better. After you do, switch left speaker to right side and vis versa, as above, and test again
4>>> I found this: http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/speaker/cs-100-e.html, which states that the eficiency of the CS-100 is 97db. This is significantly more efficient than MOST home audio speakers. So yeah, I would expect the Pioneers to be louder than the AR's for given volume setting. Also, if your receiver is only 35W, it is probably not going to do justice to the AR's, which (if healthy) should be very nice sounding speakers.
 
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Are the drivers original? The 2ax's love power and some get hung up on louder is better. Your Pioneers are guessing by me more efficient and would sound louder at the same setting.


Barney
 
Oerets said:
Are the drivers original? The 2ax's love power and some get hung up on louder is better. Your Pioneers are guessing by me more efficient and would sound louder at the same setting.


Barney
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Well, the Pioneers not only sound better at the same volume, but better then when the AR's are turned way up and the bass control cranked, while the Pioneers are at the original volume.

I made a mistake in naming the type of speakers i have....they are actually Pioneer CS F51......
 
roger2 said:
Speaker wires should have some type of indicator to differentiate + from -. It could be something very subtle. Sometimes one side has a couple of ribs running along the side of the outer insulation, while the other side is smooth. Sometimes one (actual) wire is copper colored while the other is silver colored. Sometimes there are actual "+" and "-" markings on he outside. Probably other ways I have missed. But almost always there is some type of identifier, even on common lampcord (which is often used for speaker wire).

I am not familiar with those Pioneers. But it is very possible the Pioneers are more efficient (i.e. louder with a given amount of power) than the AR's.

Again, multiple questions being discussed:
1) something wrong with receiver?
2) bass issues with AR's?
3) cutting out with AR's?
4) AR's not as loud as Pioneers?

1>>> test with Pioneers, if OK, move left speaker to right side (meaning the right speaker output on the receiver, don't have to physically move the speakers) and vis versa. OK still? Probably not an amp issue. IF you are really cranking the volume knob when playing the AR's then possibly the amp is going into some type of thermal protection, I don't know...
2>>> do listening test with AR's as suggested by onemug (and test same way with Pioneers which are known to be good, just to get a feel for what the differerence in bass output should be when doing this test)
3>>> be aware that cutting out could be whole speaker, just mid, just tweeter, even just woofer if wiring inside is really messed up. You need to identify the problem better. After you do, switch left speaker to right side and vis versa, as above, and test again
4>>> I found this: http://audio-database.com/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/speaker/cs-100-e.html, which states that the eficiency of the CS-100 is 97db. This is significantly more efficient than MOST home audio speakers. So yeah, I would expect the Pioneers to be louder than the AR's for given volume setting. Also, if you receiver is only 35W, it is probably not going to do justice to the AR's, which (if healthy) should be very nice sounding speakers.
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I made a mistake in naming the type of speakers i have....they are actually Pioneer CS F51......
 
Your Pioneers are more efficient, and thusly louder. Secondly, your AR2aX tweeter pots like all classic AR tweeter pots have issues with intermittents.
 
You need to do the polarity testing as first mentioned by onemug. And to do that you need to get straight on the wire identification and polarity. That is the next step. Cranking volume and drawing conclusions is futile.
 
So because they are more efficient, does that mean I would need a stronger receiver/ amp to get the ARs to perform as well? Its funny cause I thought I was getting a much better speaker, and they are no where near what my old Pioneer CS -F51s are.....well, the highs are better and a bit more clear....but the bass I tell you haha...I need the bass to be more full and deep...not like crazy hip hop deep, but something that you can feel!
 
roger2 said:
You need to do the polarity testing as first mentioned by onemug. And to do that you need to get straight on the wire identification and polarity. That is the next step. Cranking volume and drawing conclusions is futile.
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Ok...ill get to that when I get home later.
 
THOSE Pioneers are not in the same league as AR2ax. However, they are 93db efficient, which is like 2x more than the AR, so they will be louder. Don't mistake volume for sound quality.
 
mizmazzle said:
So because they are more efficient, does that mean I would need a stronger receiver/ amp to get the ARs to perform as well? Its funny cause I thought I was getting a much better speaker, and they are no where near what my old Pioneer CS -F51s are.....well, the highs are better and a bit more clear....but the bass I tell you haha...I need the bass to be more full and deep...not like crazy hip hop deep, but something that you can feel!
Click to expand...

Please stop drawing conclusions about the quality of one vs the other when 5 minutes ago you didn't even know that speaker polarity matters, lol. Do the polarity testing with the AR's, if one of those is out of polarity it would make a huge difference....
 
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roger2 said:
THOSE Pioneers are not in the same league as AR2ax. However, they are 93db efficient, which is like 2x more than the AR, so they will be louder. Don't mistake volume for sound quality.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying about not mistaking sound quality. The ARs are way more clear and crisp for sure...they just don't have the rumble. Like on a really simple acoustic guitar song...the pioneers will really deliver the low end of a single low E string....make for such a fuller sound. The ARs are crisp and clean, but have no guts. Like the bass is just so far off in the distance.
 
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