• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

New to vinyl, low volume and noise issues?

F

freeisforme

Member
Okay, let me start by saying its been 40 years since I played any vinyl, but luckily I never got rid of any of my old albums or 45's over the years.
I jumped on the CD bandwagon almost from the start and never looked back.
I was given a new in the box older Beogram RX turntable the other day and I decided to dig out some old vinyl for it.
Now, with that said, I also have a mid 90's Sony TT, a Technics SL 1300, TT, and a Pioneer PL530, and PL590 from back in the day.
My reciever is a Realistic STA 2100D, and I've also got a newer NAD 7225 and a Yamaha M80 amp and matching preamp. All with phono inputs.

What I'm running into is that I get very poor volume from any of these turntables, so much so that I find myself cranking the volume nearly 3/4 of the way around or more just to get good audible sound. With my Cassette deck, tuner, or CD, I rarely give it more than a couple clicks on the volume control.
I'm also getting a lot of static or pops, something I don't remember being that prevalent years ago. All of the turntables are about the same when it comes to volume and noise, but the newer Sony is the best when it comes to volume level but not by much.

I even bought a used TT preamp and tried running the TT through the Aux ports but that didn't help, if anything, it was worse. The sound I'm getting is weak, muffled and full of snaps and pops. The noise is bad enough that I worry about speaker damage.
The ground wires are connected, I have a vacuum type record cleaner and several dust brushes for albums but nothing helps.
The Pioneer PL 590 belonged to a buddy, it played fine at his place before I brought it here, the same with the Technics. All TT's have their stock original cartridges and styli. on them, but they all played fine where they came from. In the case of the Technics, I bought the NAD receiver, SL1300, and a pair of large Advent speakers all together. they sounded great where they came from but sound terrible here. The same system though sounds great with either my Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck or my Pioneer DV45A CD/DVD player connected so I think I can eliminate the receiver or speakers.
I'm at a loss here.
While I don't have much experience with vinyl, if it sounded this bad, I can't imagine anyone ever buying it back in the day.
 
Register to hide this ad
Free, if you do not know how to, check out youtube to set vertical tracking force on these tables. If you haven't used the STA 2100D in as long, it's time to open it up and deoxit all the knobs and switches. Running a TT thru the aux will not boost up the stylus signal up enough.
 
freeisforme said:
The same system though sounds great with either my Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck or my Pioneer DV45A CD/DVD player connected so I think I can eliminate the receiver or speakers.
I'm at a loss here.
Click to expand...

So you're now listening to your ancient records stored for 40 years? The crackles, snaps and pops are on the records and nothing to do with the gear. They may have developed all sorts of mould/mildew/dust/static/bug poo etc.

You've been spoilt with CD and its high level output, no noise, no distortion, just like we all were. You are used to a volume position near 10 o'clock, not 3 o'clock. It's impossible or difficult to go back, especially with your original records needing some serious attention.

I would suggest taking one of your favourite records to a HiFi store that has a decent vinyl setup and asking them to 'demo' it for you. That way you can decide if vinyl is once again something you want to pursue. Don't waste your time messing around with expensive incremental 'improvements', go hear what it can really do and see what you think.

freeisforme said:
While I don't have much experience with vinyl, if it sounded this bad, I can't imagine anyone ever buying it back in the day.
Click to expand...

Because we didn't have a choice. It was the best we got. Good vinyl was amazing, but then came CD, we had the choice of master tapes in our loungerooms for the first time and the rest is history.
 
Somethings gotta be wrong... I couldn’t imagine HAVING to turn an STA-2100 to 3/4 volume for “decent” sound level...
My STA-2000 rarely needs 1/2 volume for “listening” to records.

Ben
 
When was the last time you used the phono connections? Clean them. My CD runs at -35bd , my turntable at -20bd for the same sound levels. Buy a new album see know it sounds. The suspension on the needles may be dried out. Recordings are much different from then and now. The mixing, compression/ expansion, bass loading are all different now. Vinyl is vinyl, cd's are different.
 
Yes, something is seriously wrong. None of the comments so far are of much use, since you've tried multiple turntables, multiple phono preamps, and multiple cartridges.

An experienced analog guy might be able to diagnose the problem on the scene, but I don't see anything immediately obvious. But you should not be getting anywhere near the results you are getting.
 
Records play at a lower volume than say any of the line level inputs. Thats one of the reasons for the phono stage, to boost the signal up.

As far as the records making a lot of noise, that sounds like a condition and dirt issue. Maybe you should have got rid of your records long ago if they sound that bad.

For starters, if you have any records that look pristine without a scratch do a wet cleaning in the kitchen sink and let drip dry for at least an hour before play.
 
Where are you? Maybe there's an AK'er near you who can help. I think it's important to get to the bottom of the issue before you consign vinyl to the scrapheap again for 40 years. :)
 
I would be willing to bet the Biogram table that someone gave you has a MC cart on it. They have very low output and need extra amplification on the phono stage to get equal output.
 
I understand that the phono inputs and any turntable won't match the volume I get from a CD or cassette but what I've got is basically unlistenable.
The STA2100D has been recapped and is in top condition, its been inuse for most of the past 39 years that I've owned it.
The NAD receiver, Technics SL1300, and speakers were bought as a set just to see what I had going on here, the same combo, down to the wiring, worked fine when I listened to it where I bought it from. I bring it home, hooked it up and it does the same thing as what I already had.
The sound quality is about on par with a cheap old AM transistor radio at best. The NAD and Technics TT even came with a few albums that I demo'd the system on and they sounded good there but not here. I've gone so far as to check line voltage at the wall.

I have a lot of vinyl, its all been stored and is in top condition, I also bought a vacuum type record cleaner years ago, it uses fluid and vacuum to clean the records. I also have a few new old stock records that I've just broken the seal on but they all sound the same.

Something I did notice is that 45's play a lot cleaner and louder than 33's do. None sound right but the 45's are louder and clearer.
I only listed a handful of the amps and receivers I have here and I've got a half dozen older TT's from way back when that do the same thing.

As a comparison, I've got a portable record player from the 70's, the kind they used in schools. It plays records fine. Its not stereo, but its loud, clear and listenable. What I get from my stereo system is not listenable. Its muted, scratchy, full of pops and loud snaps, and lacking any sign of detail.
What I'm dealing with here isn't a matter of a weak signal, or dirty record, the sound is dead and muffled.

Back in the day, circa 1977-78 or so I had an old Fisher receiver, maybe 50 wpc, a Girard turntable from the early 70's, and a pair of Criterion speakers from Lafayette Radio with 12" woofers. That system would rattle the windows out of the house. What I've got now can't even be heard in the next room at full volume playing the exact same vinyl I played back then. Most of my cassettes I have were recorded from that vinyl, and those recorded cassettes still sound good and far better than anything I've been able to get out of any turntable here lately.
 
So you've tried three different receiver or preamp/power amp set-ups and the problem occurs with each phono input, and even with a separate phono preamp using aux inputs; that seems to pretty clearly narrow it down to either the turntables and/or source material.

Also, the problem occurs with all five different turntables? It would seem unlikely that it's the cartridges. I would be looking at whether the albums all had mold or some other problem that requires serious cleaning. Have you tried any other LPs other than the ones you've been hanging onto yourself for 40 years? Were they stored in a damp basement or similar conditions?
 
Check for oxidation on your cartridge and headshell pins. The only time I have ever had an issue like that on the 20 or so tables I've serviced has been when the cartridge plug pins corroded or else (In the case of Duals) the headshell sled was heavily oxidized on the contact surfaces. Try some Brasso and polish the cart pins and use some deoxit on the headshell pins and the wire connectors.
 
As far as I can tell (read), the OPs issue is across multiple TTs with different cartridges and involving multiple amps/receivers and speakers and with both old and new LPs...
No “common denominators” except location and ears...

Are you sure the TTs have been setup properly... cartridges aligned...arms balanced...TTs level...stylus’ still good?

Hmmmmm


Ben
 
polypetalous said:
As far as I can tell (read), the OPs issue is across multiple TTs with different cartridges and involving multiple amps/receivers and speakers and with both old and new LPs...
No “common denominators” except location and ears...

Are you sure the TTs have been setup properly... cartridges aligned...arms balanced...TTs level...stylus’ still good?

Hmmmmm


Ben
Click to expand...
Where is he?? This is why
 
Try unplugging the audio cables from the turntable, but leaving them plugged into the receiver, with it turned on and switched to the phono input. Then touch the tip of one of the RCA plugs with your finger. You should get a loud hum, even with the volume control only turned part of the way up.

If everything played through the receiver sounds unusually quiet, try cleaning the contacts of the tape monitor button. It may be stuck on, and what you're hearing is the leak-through which should normally need to have the volume turned most of the way up to be heard.
 
The Realistic STA-2100D has a Phono sensitivity switch which specifically is designed to compensate the volume level to match other inputs. Have you tried that?

That might not explain everything but you should investigate.

20181023_200620.jpg
 
Last edited:
The OP listed quite a number of other tables and units, but he didn't indicate that he tried them all on the receiver. I don't think you could have a problem with every piece of equipment that he listed.
 
Ken Boyd said:
The OP listed quite a number of other tables and units, but he didn't indicate that he tried them all on the receiver. I don't think you could have a problem with every piece of equipment that he listed.
Click to expand...

He said "What I'm running into is that I get very poor volume from any of these turntables", so he must have tried them all, or at least that's certainly what I conclude. Otherwise, if it were only one table, I would be thinking about cartridge or cartridge connection issues.

As was suggested above, someone in the area who could look at it with him might be helpful.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom