Decibel_116
AK Subscriber
Sounds like a poltergeist now.
New to vinyl, low volume and noise issues?
- Thread starter freeisforme
- Start date
Lapslah
Super Member
I know you're ready to give up, and I don't blame you. But the unsolved mystery bugs me. This still sounds like a grounding issue to me. I think you mentioned that there are lines from the transformer station running under your property. I'm not an electrician, but is it possible that your house is grounded to a electrically charged field?
freeisforme
Member
I had a buddy bring over his Onkyo amp and his Pioneer PL590 TT,it played better than mine but it still wasn't good and no where near how it played at his place 10 houses down from mine.
Now he's saying his TT has issues after bringing it here, its sounding all distorted and garbled when it plays much like the MCS I have here does.
What is different about 45's vs 33's in that one would play and the other not? When I put a 45 on, there's a strong buzzing or hum and the sound is unintelligible. I can tell its music but its all broken and crackly and badly muffled. With a 33 on the same set up, its weak and muffled but I can make out the words.
I'm not sure if everyone understands what I mean by distorted or muffled, when I say distorted, it sounds scrambled, the sound is so broken you can't make out the vocals at all. What I'm calling muffled sounds like the volume is turned way down with pillow over the speaker.
What's getting me is that this is progressing from just weak or muffled to now being so bad I can't make out any vocals or details. I also hear speed changes even though I don't see a change in the strobe pattern on the TT.
I did one more thing, I gave the new cartridge that I bought for my PL 590 to my buddy who said his isn't playing right since its been here and that made his play fine. It made no change whatsoever in how mine played.
I did check and the old Panasonic TT is a ceramic cartridge, but the BSR and early Radio Shack Lab 36 is magnetic.
Now he's saying his TT has issues after bringing it here, its sounding all distorted and garbled when it plays much like the MCS I have here does.
What is different about 45's vs 33's in that one would play and the other not? When I put a 45 on, there's a strong buzzing or hum and the sound is unintelligible. I can tell its music but its all broken and crackly and badly muffled. With a 33 on the same set up, its weak and muffled but I can make out the words.
I'm not sure if everyone understands what I mean by distorted or muffled, when I say distorted, it sounds scrambled, the sound is so broken you can't make out the vocals at all. What I'm calling muffled sounds like the volume is turned way down with pillow over the speaker.
What's getting me is that this is progressing from just weak or muffled to now being so bad I can't make out any vocals or details. I also hear speed changes even though I don't see a change in the strobe pattern on the TT.
I did one more thing, I gave the new cartridge that I bought for my PL 590 to my buddy who said his isn't playing right since its been here and that made his play fine. It made no change whatsoever in how mine played.
I did check and the old Panasonic TT is a ceramic cartridge, but the BSR and early Radio Shack Lab 36 is magnetic.
Thud3
Active Member
Reading through all this, I wonder if your new circuit breaker box is properly grounded, an observation someone else made.
Shielded cables, and probably internal circuits in your equipment, rely on a good ground to prevent interference. Your home being so close to high tension wires make this good ground even more important.
Are you connected at the receptical with a 3 prong plug?
The bleed from CBs, etc. makes me suspect the issue is lack of good grounding, which may be traced back to your breaker box and/or your ground rod (10 fr copper rod that breaker box common bus and safety grounds connect to).
Also, this may explain why things work differently at your place than elsewhere.
And, if your home’s electrical system is poorly grounded, you may notice that more when dealing with lower voltages.
Anyway, have an electrician come check that, or maybe your power company will check it for free.
All you have done so far tends to imply that there is nothing wrong with your equipment, doesn’t it.
Shielded cables, and probably internal circuits in your equipment, rely on a good ground to prevent interference. Your home being so close to high tension wires make this good ground even more important.
Are you connected at the receptical with a 3 prong plug?
The bleed from CBs, etc. makes me suspect the issue is lack of good grounding, which may be traced back to your breaker box and/or your ground rod (10 fr copper rod that breaker box common bus and safety grounds connect to).
Also, this may explain why things work differently at your place than elsewhere.
And, if your home’s electrical system is poorly grounded, you may notice that more when dealing with lower voltages.
Anyway, have an electrician come check that, or maybe your power company will check it for free.
All you have done so far tends to imply that there is nothing wrong with your equipment, doesn’t it.
bacobits
Active Member
Read it all. That is quite the story!!!
Never heard anything like that.
Is the house built on an enormous amount of ferrous rock in the area?
I knew someone in Sparta, NJ with a situation, Not an old house. In lightening storms he had at least 3 electrical panels blow out not to mention appliances and anything hooked to it.
Now or at least at the time he put in a very expensive whole house surge protection system.
Just throwing that out there. Sorry for all the terrible problems.
Never heard anything like that.
Is the house built on an enormous amount of ferrous rock in the area?
I knew someone in Sparta, NJ with a situation, Not an old house. In lightening storms he had at least 3 electrical panels blow out not to mention appliances and anything hooked to it.
Now or at least at the time he put in a very expensive whole house surge protection system.
Just throwing that out there. Sorry for all the terrible problems.
freeisforme
Member
I sold the Beogram, both Pioneer TT's, and the Technics, and threw the MCS in Friday's trash. The guy who bought the Beogram said it sounds great. I sold my box of albums to local used vinyl store. Life is too short to waste so much time on something that just won't work.
You need one of these, available at Home Depot. I believe your ground and hot may be reversed, I suggest calling an electrician, the cause of this issue could be dangerous either electrically or fire.
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freeisforme
Member
The ground is not reversed, I'd have caught that when I installed the new copper grounding rod when the new service was installed. Everything is new and passed inspection recently. The house originally had knob and tube wiring, its all gone now.
With that said, most turntables don't have three prong plugs so a reversed ground wouldn't affect how they play since the plugs aren't polarized.
The power from the wall only appears to run the motor, the four wires from the cartridge on the two I opened up go straight from the cartridge to the rca plugs. There's no wall power going to the cartridge, any power there is from the amp or receiver jacks. This is the part that gets me, with nothing but the rca cables and the cartridge in the sound picture, just about any functioning cartridge with a good stylus should play. If the older ceramic cartridges are able to make clear sound, I couldn't figure out why the magnetic one's were having so many issues.
The records are good, they play fine elsewhere and they play fine on a portable record player I have.
Either way, the only TT I have left here is the Sony, which plays at a very low volume and won't play 45's without severe distortion and hum, one older Technics, and a Garard from around 1970 that I pulled from the attic, it plays but its extremely noisy. That one uses a flip over type stylus. Its wheel driven not belt and the wheels are flat spotted from sitting.
With that said, most turntables don't have three prong plugs so a reversed ground wouldn't affect how they play since the plugs aren't polarized.
The power from the wall only appears to run the motor, the four wires from the cartridge on the two I opened up go straight from the cartridge to the rca plugs. There's no wall power going to the cartridge, any power there is from the amp or receiver jacks. This is the part that gets me, with nothing but the rca cables and the cartridge in the sound picture, just about any functioning cartridge with a good stylus should play. If the older ceramic cartridges are able to make clear sound, I couldn't figure out why the magnetic one's were having so many issues.
The records are good, they play fine elsewhere and they play fine on a portable record player I have.
Either way, the only TT I have left here is the Sony, which plays at a very low volume and won't play 45's without severe distortion and hum, one older Technics, and a Garard from around 1970 that I pulled from the attic, it plays but its extremely noisy. That one uses a flip over type stylus. Its wheel driven not belt and the wheels are flat spotted from sitting.
freeisforme
Member
Something that I'm having real trouble figuring out is why when I put the needle to a 7 inch 45, I blow both tweeter fuses almost instantly, yet it don't do that with a 33 rpm album?
The tweeter fuses pop almost the instant the needle hits the record. Its fine on 33 other than the very low volume. I can crank that receiver to the max on the same speakers all day long and never pop the fuse playing CD's or tapes. I even checked for DC volts when it happens but I get nothing at the speaker. The fuses are 2.5 amp and they look melted when they pop.
This happened on the Beogram that I sold, on the MCS, and on both Technics and both Pioneer TT's but never on the older Panasonic, even though the Panasonic is extremely loud when played, so loud that you can't turn the volume down enough. Its not the only ceramic cartridge TT I have but none of the others are like this. I'm afraid of hurting the amp or one of my receivers, or my speakers its so loud. Even though the sound is distorted its amplified so much its ear piercing even at the lowest volume setting.
The tweeter fuses pop almost the instant the needle hits the record. Its fine on 33 other than the very low volume. I can crank that receiver to the max on the same speakers all day long and never pop the fuse playing CD's or tapes. I even checked for DC volts when it happens but I get nothing at the speaker. The fuses are 2.5 amp and they look melted when they pop.
This happened on the Beogram that I sold, on the MCS, and on both Technics and both Pioneer TT's but never on the older Panasonic, even though the Panasonic is extremely loud when played, so loud that you can't turn the volume down enough. Its not the only ceramic cartridge TT I have but none of the others are like this. I'm afraid of hurting the amp or one of my receivers, or my speakers its so loud. Even though the sound is distorted its amplified so much its ear piercing even at the lowest volume setting.
Call an electrician, something is amiss with the ground or the service. If the service is underground then I would suspect the conductors have rotted and are leaching voltage, this is also possible with overhead lines.
Not too long ago I was sent to help the bosses son, he was having trouble locating an issue. I'll make this short, one of the symptoms occurred when starting the countertop microwave oven, the overhead fluorescent lighting would come on. Turn off the micro and the lights would go off. The power was getting to the lighting by backfeeding along the neutral.
Randy had been there 5hrs, holes cut in the wall etc looking for the issue, he did find a buried j-box, a 90 degree condelette also buried, not to code but these were not the issue. Five minutes in I knew it was the service, the overhead service conductors were old and dryrotted and leaching current onto the neutral.
Here's a quick test to determine if it's location dependent as you think, or service related as I'm positive it is. Use a portable generator to power the stereo equipment, if location dependent the issue should still remain, if this fixes the problem you have an electrical issue, simple.
Not too long ago I was sent to help the bosses son, he was having trouble locating an issue. I'll make this short, one of the symptoms occurred when starting the countertop microwave oven, the overhead fluorescent lighting would come on. Turn off the micro and the lights would go off. The power was getting to the lighting by backfeeding along the neutral.
Randy had been there 5hrs, holes cut in the wall etc looking for the issue, he did find a buried j-box, a 90 degree condelette also buried, not to code but these were not the issue. Five minutes in I knew it was the service, the overhead service conductors were old and dryrotted and leaching current onto the neutral.
Here's a quick test to determine if it's location dependent as you think, or service related as I'm positive it is. Use a portable generator to power the stereo equipment, if location dependent the issue should still remain, if this fixes the problem you have an electrical issue, simple.
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Truer words have never been spoken lol.
I had to redo my house after a water leak, and the electricians had all sorts of issues to re-do correctly. THAT house passed inspection in 1973.
Well to be fair that was a long time ago, who knows how many "handyman" hacks had touched the electrical in the interim lol. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when messing with electricity.
freeisforme
Member
The complete service was changed out when the breaker box was changed from fuses to breakers in order to increase the service from 60 amp to 200 amp.
They ran new, heavier triple wires from a new block on roof to the pole, and a new line down to the meter, and into the house to the breaker panel.
They attached the ground at that time to the house plumbing since at the time it was still using a well. A year later it was upgraded and connected to city water, then I added a copper ground rod since the old well pipe was removed.
I thought the generator test was a good idea so I dug out my 7500w Coleman generator and set it up outside the living room window with a cord running to the stereo. For what ever reason, the stereo wouldn't even power up with the generator, it would light up but no sound. The generator would run things like the microwave, coffee maker, a hand drill, and the cassette deck would fast forward and rewind but wouldn't play a tape.
The TT would spin but since neither receiver would play. I waited till a neighbor came home and then borrowed his suitcase sized Honda generator but it did the same thing? On both generators, the voltage varied between 111 and 125v depending on engine rpm.
If the electrical service in the house had any issues, I'd expect issues with items that used polarized type plugs, but everything else is fine. Of all the TT's, only the Beogram had a three prong plug. I'd also expect to see issues with the ground fault outlets in the kitchen, on the porch, or in the bathroom. All the ground fault outlets test out fine.
No one has touched this house other than myself or one of two relatives, both of whom are qualified electrical techs. The outlets powering the stereo are dedicated and run directly to the breaker box via BX cable to 6 separate breakers.
They ran new, heavier triple wires from a new block on roof to the pole, and a new line down to the meter, and into the house to the breaker panel.
They attached the ground at that time to the house plumbing since at the time it was still using a well. A year later it was upgraded and connected to city water, then I added a copper ground rod since the old well pipe was removed.
I thought the generator test was a good idea so I dug out my 7500w Coleman generator and set it up outside the living room window with a cord running to the stereo. For what ever reason, the stereo wouldn't even power up with the generator, it would light up but no sound. The generator would run things like the microwave, coffee maker, a hand drill, and the cassette deck would fast forward and rewind but wouldn't play a tape.
The TT would spin but since neither receiver would play. I waited till a neighbor came home and then borrowed his suitcase sized Honda generator but it did the same thing? On both generators, the voltage varied between 111 and 125v depending on engine rpm.
If the electrical service in the house had any issues, I'd expect issues with items that used polarized type plugs, but everything else is fine. Of all the TT's, only the Beogram had a three prong plug. I'd also expect to see issues with the ground fault outlets in the kitchen, on the porch, or in the bathroom. All the ground fault outlets test out fine.
No one has touched this house other than myself or one of two relatives, both of whom are qualified electrical techs. The outlets powering the stereo are dedicated and run directly to the breaker box via BX cable to 6 separate breakers.
If the audio equipment tested on the generator have already been internally damaged from a faulty service sending power through the neutral this might explain things, changing generators wouldn't help.
You already mentioned a friend's deck now has issues from being used as test equipment in your house. Connect a known working stereo, one never connected to your electrical service to the generator.
If one leg is periodically sending power through the neutral the equipment could be seeing up to 240v sporadically, this would definitely reak havoc with the electronic gear.
I'm still going with an electrical issue whether service related or not.
Just as not all equipment are created equally, neither are electricians. Unless your cousins or yourself have a Masters license then you're still neophytes. This is not meant as an insult, everyone starts somewhere.
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