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New tonearm for Thorens TD-125 Mk-II: Pro-Ject 9cc or Rega RB303 or Jelco SA250ST

keilau

keilau

AK Member
I am looking for an under $500 budget tonearm. My current arm is a Grace G-707 which is in excellent condition and sound very good to me. I am just wanting to experience something more modern (?) and different. The cartridge is Dynavector Karat Ruby 23R. Any advise based on first hand experience are greatly appreciated. Alternate suggestion are welcome too, but must be based on first hand use.

Another arm that I am looking at is the SME M2-9. At $1200 or more, it is far above my budget

My music taste is mostly symphonic classical and 70's era folk vocal.
 
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My 23R was purchased with a Magnepan Unitrac. Not much more modern than the Grace but a great tonearm available within your budget.
 
I have had all three arms here that you mention, on different tables and at different times. It is hard to separate the sound of an arm from a table and cartridge, so any definitive comment on SQ is a bit of an extrapolation at best.

However, the ST 250 is not a well built arm, I would consider it a step down from your Grace.

The Project has a nice arm tube and bearings. However the internal wiring is a bit suspect, and the cartridge clips are prone to falling off. If you were to rewire it, then it could be better than the Grace.

The 303 is a decent arm, but no VTA adjustment. Once again, one of those kind of arms that has performance left on the table. Wiring upgrades, counterweight upgrades, and VTA adjuster make it a complete arm. But then you get into the price of an Audiomod.

The Audiomod Classic II is one of the better values in the world of tone arms. It is really a distinct design that uses a heavily modified Rega arm wand and cue device. Otherwise everything else is different. And even the wand modifications change it to an entirely different beast. The build quality is stellar, and I got no idea how Jeff Spalls sells this arm for what he does.
classicII500.jpg

My next favorite, is the SME M2-9, which can be had from the North American distributor for around $1K with exchange rate. As I read the website, its $1199 CAD, so the exchange rate should get it closer to $1K. But i could be wrong, perhaps the website adjusts price for where I am.

But if you are looking for a new arm for $500 or under that is going to be better than your Grace, its not likely to happen. It will even be hard to find a used arm significantly better than it for under $500. Unless you are running medium-low/low compliance moving coil cartridges that want higher mass than the Grace has.

But that is just the opinion of a simple country pig. We like good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion, go ask the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, as fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Mister Pig said:
I have had all three arms here that you mention, on different tables and at different times. It is hard to separate the sound of an arm from a table and cartridge, so any definitive comment on SQ is a bit of an extrapolation at best.

But if you are looking for a new arm for $500 or under that is going to be better than your Grace, its not likely to happen. It will even be hard to find a used arm significantly better than it for under $500. Unless you are running medium-low/low compliance moving coil cartridges that want higher mass than the Grace has.

But that is just the opinion of a simple country pig. We like good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion, go ask the cows for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens, as fowl are known liars and they cheat at cards.

Regards
Mister Pig
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Thank you for taking the time to write a very detailed and informative reply. For an under $500 budget, I do not expect much. I want to try something different that would not be a huge disappointment when compared to the Grace G-707 reference.

I will look at the Audiomod Classic II again.
 
Mister Pig said:
I have had all three arms here that you mention, on different tables and at different times. It is hard to separate the sound of an arm from a table and cartridge, so any definitive comment on SQ is a bit of an extrapolation at best.

However, the ST 250 is not a well built arm, I would consider it a step down from your Grace.

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...
Is your comment SA250ST specific, or it applies to all Jelco's? What sets the SA250 apart from the other Jelco's?
 
I would go 9CC, I have run a 17D2mr on it with great results. FWIW
Regards,
Jim
 
What is it that you're seeking in an arm that you feel the G-707 isn't providing? I think in terms of general quality you have have to spend considerably more than your budget (in a new arm at least) to get close to the quality of what you already have. Now, the G-707 is a rather low-mass design, so is it something more medium mass that you'd like to try?
 
fiddlefye said:
What is it that you're seeking in an arm that you feel the G-707 isn't providing? I think in terms of general quality you have have to spend considerably more than your budget (in a new arm at least) to get close to the quality of what you already have. Now, the G-707 is a rather low-mass design, so is it something more medium mass that you'd like to try?
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keilau said:
I am looking for an under $500 budget tonearm. My current arm is a Grace G-707 which is in excellent condition and sound very good to me. I am just wanting to experience something more modern (?) and different. The cartridge is Dynavector Karat Ruby 23R. Any advise based on first hand experience are greatly appreciated. Alternate suggestion are welcome too, but must be based on first hand use.

Another arm that I am looking at is the SME M2-9. At $1200 or more, it is far above my budget

My music taste is mostly symphonic classical and 70's era folk vocal.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Grace G-707 is a low-mass arm which works very well with the Dynavector Karat Ruby 23R. I also have a Shure V-15III which also work well with the Grace. I have not return to the Shure for years.
 
ehoove said:
I would go 9CC, I have run a 17D2mr on it with great results. FWIW
Regards,
Jim
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Thank you, Jim, for the information. I am also inclined to the 9cc if I hold my budget at $500. I am still tempted by the SME M2-9 if I can find a better deal.
 
sturgus said:
I also think the Audiomods Classic would be a great upgrade. If you are handy you could buy the Kit from Jeff and save a bit of money. It really is a great arm for the money.
http://www.audiomods.co.uk/armkits.html

Another arm that would work is the Jelco 370-H comes in at less than $350 and has fluid damping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jelco-SA-3...537714&hash=item466faef789:g:O00AAOxyYYlRviLd
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The endorsement for the Audiomod is quite universal. But the price point is approaching that of the SME. But the biggest drawback is its shiny finish.

I am much less certain about the Jelco. The SA-750D got some good reviews, but the SA-370 series seems to get more negative feedback. Which TT do you use the SA-370H on? Couple with which cartridge?
 
The Audiomods is also available with a matte/beadblasted finish. But, the Classic is no longer sold (I don't think Jeff has updated his website). He now offers 2 variants of the Series Five arm - LM, which as far as I can tell is the same as the "regular" Series Five with copper wiring instead of sliver. I bought a Series 5 LM recently and I can say it was considerably above your $500 budget (I think the classic is advertised at around GBP 500)
 
keilau said:
Is your comment SA250ST specific, or it applies to all Jelco's? What sets the SA250 apart from the other Jelco's?
Click to expand...

The less expensive offerings from Jelco, such as the 250 do not have the precision parts that good tone arms have. Bearings, arm tube, yoke, and arm collar are not built to the level that the Grace is. The 370 is a bit better, but its not exceptional. Now the 750 series is built better, but its main draw seems to be cost orientated, and the general comments are that it performs well for its price point. It can be had for the $500-600 range as I recall, but it usually does not come with a tone arm cable. So you have to add another $100 or more for one.

The Audiomods Classic II you should be able to order in the satin finish. Since they are all built to order, there is no reason that I know of that Jeff could not do that. And it is a better tone arm, some would argue the best in the sub $1000 market. If the USD to Pound ratio is still favorable, that gets you a bit more affordable price also.

But I think you have identified the 5 contenders in the affordable tone arm market today:
Jelco 750
Project 9CC
Rega 300 series
Audiomods Classic II
SME M2-9

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Thank you to the many helpful and insightful responses that I received. I have decided on the tonearm, but would wait for a used one to come along at the right price instead of getting it new. I checked Audiogon and Ebay for recently sold price.

My first choice is the SME M2-9 at $800 or less. The second choice is the Pro-Ject 9cc at $350. I understand that the offers are few and far in-between. For now, I will continue to enjoy my Grace G-707.

My MC phono stage is either the Parasound Zphono USB or the Kenwood C-2. I like the Kenwood slight better. I tried the NAD 1600, though not bad but did not like it as much. Yes, I like solid state sound if it makes any difference to my arm choice.
 
I finally received a Technics ESP-120L carbon fiber tonearm ordered on e-bay. It came in the original box with user's manual (Japanese only!) and an aluminum mounting template. The arm looks clean and the bearing are free. It is an 10" carbon fiber arm. It missed a cartridge mounting sled in the headshell which I need to find a replacement before I can use the arm. I was told that Technics SH-98 headshell has the same small sled. It will go on a Thorens TD-125II that I have been refurbishing for a few years. The only online information is from audioheritage.jp. It would be nice to see a review.
I posted some pictures in my other thread.

I always want to try a carbon fiber tonearm. The 10" arm length (242mm effective length) is a nice bonus.

· Technics EPA-102L
· ¥ 26,000 (around 1976)

Commentary
Carbon fiber semi-integrated tone arm.

Strong and light carbon fiber helical winding tapered pipe is adopted Carbon fiber, which has eight times the tensile strength compared to aluminum alloy, is crossed at an angle that gives the highest strength, spirally wound and processed into a tapered pipe. As a result, it is resistant to bending and twisting, and is lighter.

The shell is also made of lightweight and highly rigid carbon fiber reinforced resin.

High sensitivity design gimbal suspension bearing structure suitable for light needle pressure cartridge is adopted.

Model rating
Model Static balance type tone arm
Effective length 242mm
Overhang 15mm
Height adjustment range From 22-50mm arm board to turntable top When the cartridge height is 18mm
Offset angle 21 ゜
Tracking error angle +2.6 ゜ -0.7 ゜
Needle pressure adjustment range 0-2.5g direct reading variable
Applicable cartridge weight 5g-16g
Arm effective mass 16.5g (Cartridge own weight 16.5g, stylus pressure 1.25g)
 
That took a while to find. The Magnepan is a 241mm effective length, carbon fiber, tapered, too. That tapered is said by Van den Hul to be a good thing. You might have a nice arm for that cartridge. I know the 23R sounds great in the Magnepan.

Headed over to see the pics, now.
 
I may have more obstacles to overcome before I can determine whether the Technics EPA-102L arm and the Dynavector Karat Ruby 23R cartridge are compatible. It is the mounting system. The 23R has 2 threaded holes from above. The 102L arm seems to expect the cartridge to have through holes from below to allow the mounting screw to go through to screw onto the headshell (cartridge mounting adaptor) thread?
High-End-Dynavector-Karat-23R-Ruby-Cartridge-MC-_57c.jpg esp102l_headshell-pic2.jpg
If you are a Technics turntable owner, do you have experience mounting a Dynavector Karat series cartridge to a Technics SH-98 headshell? Can it be done without modifying the SH-98 headshell?
 
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