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New Turntable

U-Turn: I like the idea of buying a USA made product, from a company that is known for excellent customer service....

ProJect: I like the 'sub-platter' belt drive design

That's all I've got, hope you find the deck that is just right for you....
 
Chad Michael said:
U-Turn: I like the idea of buying a USA made product, from a company that is known for excellent customer service....

ProJect: I like the 'sub-platter' belt drive design

That's all I've got, hope you find the deck that is just right for you....
Click to expand...
I appreciate it, definitely not easy with all the options out there. Almost feels like I’m working a second job trying to decide what to go with.
 
Another one is the Audio Technica LP-120... comes with an AT-VM95E cart

1) Crutchfield has a good return policy
2) Direct drive may give more impressive specs
3) Removable headshell for potential cart swaps

.... but when we listen to music, we don't necessarily listen to specifications. See what I did there? Offered yet another deck, so I'm sorry to add to your second job ;)
 
Natitude said:
Looking for info/advice to help me decide which way to go on two tables I’m looking at. Currently running my first table, a Sansui SR232. It’s been a good tt but I’m gifting it to a relative and am ready to upgrade. I want new because life is t allowing much extra time to tinker on an older one at this time (although I know there are great vintage ones).



Two considerations are:



Music Hall Mark1 - ($300)
www.musicdirect.com

Music Hall - MMF Mark1 Turntable

The world's largest online retailer of high-end audio, audiophile music, and accessories. We specialize in vinyl records and turntables.
www.musicdirect.com www.musicdirect.com


Speeds: 33.3 / 45 RPM

Speed variance: +/- 0.9%

Wow and flutter: +/- 0.2%

Effective Tonearm (aluminum)-Length: 218.5 mm (8.6")

Effective Tonearm-Mass: 9.0 g

Overhang: 18.5 mm

Output: RCA Phono

Power Supply: 15V/ 0-0.8A DC

Power consumption: < 0.3 W (stand by)

Dimensions (WHD): 16.3" x 4.6" x 12.6"

Weight: 16.5 lbs.

Accessories: Audio cable, power supply, lid



Music Hall MMF 2.3 - ($450)
www.safeandsoundhq.com

Music Hall MMF-2.3 2-Speed Belt-Drive with Phono Cartridge

MMF-2.3 TurntableThe music hall mmf-2.3 turntable is a 2-speed belt driven audiophile turntable at a budget price. Focus on ComponentsConstructed using high quality components, the mmf-2.3 has been simplified to focus on the critical components: bearing, motor, and tonearm.The Complete...
www.safeandsoundhq.com www.safeandsoundhq.com




power supply 15V / 0-0.8mA DC

universal power supply

power connection 100 240 Volt

50 or 60 Hz

standby power consumption < 1 W

speeds 33 1/3 rpm

(manual change to 45 rpm)

wow and flutter 0.10 %

speed deviation 0.80%

rumble max > 68 db

effective tonearm (carbon) length 8.6 in. (218.5 mm)

effective arm mass 7.0 g

overhang 18.5 mm

product dimensions w17" x d13" x h4.5"

weight 17 lbs. pkg.



So, is 2.3 worth the extra $150 in y’all’s opinion? The 2.3 is stretching my budget to the max. But I’m willing to pull the trigger on it if it really is that much better of a table. They both share same plinth, motor and both have VTA. Biggest difference I see is the 2.3 has the carbon tone arm vs. aluminum on the Mark 1. While the carbon arm would reduce resonance (and look purdy), would it limit my options on carts due to its low mass?



FWIW, the others that I’m considering are the Fluance RT 82, Uturn Orbit and Project T1.



Appreciate the advice in advance and happy weekend!!
Click to expand...
Honestly those specs on the MH's are not that great. Either an Orbit or for another hundo over the MH get the Fluance RT-85N (the acrylic platter and cartridge along are worth half the table), with 0.07 w/f specs (totally destroys the MH).
 
Natitude said:
What’s a good speed variance?
Click to expand...
The DIN hifi standards published years ago said anything between 1.5% fast to 1.0% slow is fine. When it comes to wow and flutter, Fluance wrote, "a lot of listeners can’t “pick up” on wow or flutter ranges up to .25 percent. Under this percentage, the sound distortion simply can’t be picked up by most." Of course, if a person happens to be more sensitive to these issues than most people are, then tighter specifications might be something to look, and listen, for. I have Audio Technica's cheapest turntable (LP60X) in my bedroom, and I've never heard a hint of speed-related problems with it.

Of the turntables you've listed and have been mentioned in this thread, the only one I've owned is the AT-LP120XUSB. I bought it mainly for its 78 rpm feature, which my Rega RP3 lacked. During covid, I was not able to buy a new Rega belt and ended up using the AT for several months for all my playback needs. I found it to be very engaging to listen to and very easy to live with. Standout features for my situation included direct drive operation--no belts needed!--and removable headshells, reserving the stock VM95 body for 78's and buying an extra headshell to mount up a Sumiko Oyster I had on hand for lp's and 45's. I loved the handy headshell receptacle near the tonearm for storing the extra cartridge, and the threaded counterweight with accurate vtf scale made it quick and easy to change and set up cartridges. I got kind of spoiled being able to simply push a button to change speeds and not needing to move the belt to different-sized pulleys like on the Rega. I also found surprisingly frequent use for its built-in phono stage.

I think it likely that any of these turntables that you choose will give you pleasing sound from your records. Not that they will sound the same, but only comparative auditions would let you hear which of them, if any, stand out above the others in sound quality. If you can't actually hear them and handle them prior to purchase, I would give some weight to looking at their features and how they operate, trying to ascertain which of them would be the most pleasant and versatile to live with and use. Some of the features on my LP120XUSB would be sonic compromises on a higher-performing deck like the Rega, but if I had to live with just one turntable, the full-featured AT with still very engaging sound (and the Sumiko Oyster cartridge helped a lot with this in my system) might win out.
 
The Fluance does get a lot of positive reviews. Just check YouTube.

The U-Turn Orbit is also a solid choice. Made in America, if that is important to you, and also very good customer service, as noted previously.

The benefit of new tables is the warranty.

Sorry about the Technics recommendation. I was not sure what your budget was at that time.
 
jrtrent said:
The DIN hifi standards published years ago said anything between 1.5% fast to 1.0% slow is fine. When it comes to wow and flutter, Fluance wrote, "a lot of listeners can’t “pick up” on wow or flutter ranges up to .25 percent. Under this percentage, the sound distortion simply can’t be picked up by most." Of course, if a person happens to be more sensitive to these issues than most people are, then tighter specifications might be something to look, and listen, for. I have Audio Technica's cheapest turntable (LP60X) in my bedroom, and I've never heard a hint of speed-related problems with it.

Of the turntables you've listed and have been mentioned in this thread, the only one I've owned is the AT-LP120XUSB. I bought it mainly for its 78 rpm feature, which my Rega RP3 lacked. During covid, I was not able to buy a new Rega belt and ended up using the AT for several months for all my playback needs. I found it to be very engaging to listen to and very easy to live with. Standout features for my situation included direct drive operation--no belts needed!--and removable headshells, reserving the stock VM95 body for 78's and buying an extra headshell to mount up a Sumiko Oyster I had on hand for lp's and 45's. I loved the handy headshell receptacle near the tonearm for storing the extra cartridge, and the threaded counterweight with accurate vtf scale made it quick and easy to change and set up cartridges. I got kind of spoiled being able to simply push a button to change speeds and not needing to move the belt to different-sized pulleys like on the Rega. I also found surprisingly frequent use for its built-in phono stage.

I think it likely that any of these turntables that you choose will give you pleasing sound from your records. Not that they will sound the same, but only comparative auditions would let you hear which of them, if any, stand out above the others in sound quality. If you can't actually hear them and handle them prior to purchase, I would give some weight to looking at their features and how they operate, trying to ascertain which of them would be the most pleasant and versatile to live with and use. Some of the features on my LP120XUSB would be sonic compromises on a higher-performing deck like the Rega, but if I had to live with just one turntable, the full-featured AT with still very engaging sound (and the Sumiko Oyster cartridge helped a lot with this in my system) might win out.
Click to expand...
Great info!! Appreciate you explaining that for me. I had no clue what those measurements meant.
 
ranf1970 said:
The Fluance does get a lot of positive reviews. Just check YouTube.

The U-Turn Orbit is also a solid choice. Made in America, if that is important to you, and also very good customer service, as noted previously.

The benefit of new tables is the warranty.

Sorry about the Technics recommendation. I was not sure what your budget was at that time.
Click to expand...
They both get solid reviews for sure. I actually owned a 1st gen uturn awhile back. I’m really liking the Project Carbon Evo now. From reviews I’ve read and watched looks solid and has a great upgrade path which is nice also.

And no worries on the technics recommendation, I wish I had that kind of budget lol
 
If the spending comfort spot is $300, I'd go with the RT82. It has better specs than the MH's and Evo. Has the same Cart as the Evo, and has auto return. Then upgrade towards the RT85 as funds become available.
 
DeadTrader said:
If the spending comfort spot is $300, I'd go with the RT82. It has better specs than the MH's and Evo. Has the same Cart as the Evo, and has auto return. Then upgrade towards the RT85 as funds become available.
Click to expand...
I like this idea… a lot! The Fluance does have the others in the spec dept. as well :idea:
 
U-Turn Orbit. Very nice magnesium tonearm, nice improvements over their earlier machines, the best customer service you will EVER receive in the audio business. Configurable in several ways, direct purchase from their site, direct customer service from the very owners of the company.

I've owned plenty of turntables over the years, and none of the other turntables noted above would get my $$ ahead of U-Turn.
 
Hajidub said:
with 0.07 w/f specs (totally destroys the MH).
Click to expand...
But can the average listener “hear” that difference? I know a trained ear could hear the difference between .07 and .2 wow/flutter. But I question if average listeners (me) would be able to.
 
Natitude said:
But can the average listener “hear” that difference? I know a trained ear could hear the difference between .07 and .2 wow/flutter. But I question if average listeners (me) would be able to.
Click to expand...
Possibly not, but is indictative of built and design differences for tables that are similarly priced.
 
Who wants to be an average listener?

If you like good specs find a used Yamaha PF-800. Always for sale on the auction site, not much to worry about with auction buyer protections, and a simple belt drive set up but with specs vbetter than most top dollar Direct Drives. I own one, not my daily driver, but a damn good sounding table.

I know you posted you want new but really what is there to maintain on a table like these, a new belt every 10 years? The build quality on the new ones compared to the PF-800/1000 is like a Yugo compared to a Mercedes, just lifting the two will convince anyone how much difference in quality there is.
 
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