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New vs Old Maxell tape

oldvinyldude

oldvinyldude

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I am curious about the recording quality of NOS Maxell (such as XLI), vs used reels of the same formulation.

I have a large collection of used XLI, but no NOS of this, and wondered if anyone has compared.

For clarification, I am speaking of R2R tapes, not cassette formulations.

I never had any issues with recording over Maxell cassettes of UDXLII or similar-I was not a super critical listener at that point, but I never noticed or hesitated to use a previously recorded tape for new recordings.

My reading suggests that other than a 3db lower noise floor, there should be no difference, provided the deck is in good condition, and the tape has been stored reasonably. I did see some posts by a well respected member who noted that true chrome tapes do not age as well as the cobalt doped ferrics, but I don't believe this distinction applies to R2R tape stock.
 
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Given the price of any NOS Maxell that you are likely to find, you'd be much better off buying a new pancake of ATR/RTM. The difference in new vs used is that you don't really know the condition of the tape or where it's been; dropouts, tape path damage, poor storage can all add up. A used tape that was stored correctly and used on a good tape handling machine should be sonically the same as NOS, but like I said if it's used you don't know where it's been, and really you don't even know if it's Maxell tape at all on the reel. Tape tends to migrate around to different reels after a few years, let alone decades...

Try some new tape -- why pay more for 40 year old stock?
 
yep, agree with @titanstats , Maxell made some nice tape, but NOS or UOS, its all over 40 years old now. It may be be good, but you will likely not have much info on how it was stored over those 40 years.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I know that storage conditions are a factor, and I can buy new, etc.

Does anyone have experience with recording with NOS and then used Maxell R2R tape? It's a long shot, but that is the scenario I am hoping to find.
 
Experience, yes. Measurable experience, no. I opened up my NOS of UDXL II (7") and recorded on it, and have recorded on used of the same flavor. I can't discern any difference. But that's to my ears, my system, my sources.

But it was fun unwrapping the cellophane from that box. :)

- Jeff
 
oldvinyldude said:
Thanks for the replies.

I know that storage conditions are a factor, and I can buy new, etc.

Does anyone have experience with recording with NOS and then used Maxell R2R tape? It's a long shot, but that is the scenario I am hoping to find.
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Sounds the same. Tape doesn’t really degrade sonically unless it’s physically damaged in some way. That being said, many many used tapes that were used *are* damaged in some way or are a different formulation than the reel they are currently on.
 
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hertzdonut said:
Experience, yes. Measurable experience, no. I opened up my NOS of UDXL II (7") and recorded on it, and have recorded on used of the same flavor. I can't discern any difference. But that's to my ears, my system, my sources.

But it was fun unwrapping the cellophane from that box. :)

- Jeff
Click to expand...

Thanks-thats useful experience.

Fortunately, the vast majority of my collection is Maxell with a few TDK’s and Scotch. They all used distinctive leaders. I can confidently determine what tape formulation is on the reel, regardless of what the box states, or the reel itself states. It’s unlikely that anyone would go to the effort to spice those leaders onto other formulations.
I do have some tape that got swapped around-like the TDK SA tape on a Maxell reel, in an Ampex box-lol.
 
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I have had really good luck with UD and XLI tape with the exception of the back coated variety (B coded). Also TDK Audua L-xxxxM tape. I’ve used both NOS and used varieties of both. These are very durable tapes! Out of 70 reels I think I only dumped one. I also use ATR and RTM tapes and they perform specification wise a bit better but jury is still out to how they fair over 40-50 years. Maxell and TDK worked very hard to create products that had good specifications but also exceptional durability needed for the consumer market of the time.
 
“with the exception of the back coated variety (B)”

Was the issue one of recording results, or something else?
 
oldvinyldude said:
“with the exception of the back coated variety (B)”

Was the issue one of recording results, or something else?
Click to expand...

With a few exceptions I have found early back coating not durable so I stay away from it. It basically tends to come off or shed. Not always but sometimes.

Realize when I picked up most of my old tape it was years ago and it was a bargain. That is no longer the case as prices have gone up. I typically buy LPR 35 from RTM for long play 1.5 mil recordings these days as it is probably a better value.
 
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It seems I can get decent used Maxell cheaper and quicker so I haven't tried RTM yet. I really should buy some of this to help justify the market..But I KNOW I won't be able to hear any difference.
 
I have a bunch of Maxell tapes I bought years ago it sounds like it did new to me.
I also have 16 10 1/2" reels of unopened Maxell in different formulas that I bought new 30 years ago.

When I got my deck fixed a few years ago per my techs recommendation we sent the heads out to JFR to be re-lapped and aligned. He calibrated it for RTM SM911 so that is what I now use.
After putting all of the money I did into getting the deck back into tip top shape It makes no sense to me to risk running old tape my machine is not calibrated for.

Also I keep watching the stupid prices NOS Maxell is bringing today.
Funny to me because Maxell was always thought of a consumer grade tape in the studios I recorded in.
None of them tracked or mastered on Maxell tape it was not pro grade!
Cheers
PQ
 
PureQuill said:
He calibrated it for RTM SM911 so that is what I now use.
Click to expand...

I also use the SM911 when I am serious about recording. My Sony APR can use 12.5” reels so it will hold enough 2mil SM911 to hold a whole album.
 
oldvinyldude said:
I am curious about the recording quality of NOS Maxell (such as XLI), vs used reels of the same formulation.

I have a large collection of used XLI, but no NOS of this, and wondered if anyone has compared.

For clarification, I am speaking of R2R tapes, not cassette formulations.

I never had any issues with recording over Maxell cassettes of UDXLII or similar-I was not a super critical listener at that point, but I never noticed or hesitated to use a previously recorded tape for new recordings.

My reading suggests that other than a 3db lower noise floor, there should be no difference, provided the deck is in good condition, and the tape has been stored reasonably. I did see some posts by a well respected member who noted that true chrome tapes do not age as well as the cobalt doped ferrics, but I don't believe this distinction applies to R2R tape stock.
Click to expand...
I'll give a qualified answer. When setting up a deck for a tape formula or after service requiring bias and eq adjustments nearly virgin tape was almost necessary. I kept a Maxell UD 1800 foot of 1 mil tape just for the purpose using new sections of the tape for each job until the whole reel had been used. You could see the difference on the scope at higher frequencies, less drop outs and more stable patterns. It did not take too many passes of the tape to notice a difference. Other than that one might not notice with recorded program material. With experience one can tell by looking at the oxide side of the tape for any irregularities, signs of having been pulled across heads and guides, pinched between roller and capstan. Compare with new tape and you'll see the difference. Check a number of turns into the reel to eliminate effects of handling the tape, loose ends, issues with being close to the hub.
 
stoutblock said:
Actually it is 1.4 mil, I rounded up. See section 5 https://www.recordingthemasters.com...35-technical-datasheet-IAQ-COM01-CLCOM-12.pdf
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Yes, you are correct if you are referring to the total thickness of the tape. It is common practice, however, for tape manufacturers to identify their tapes as 1 mil or 1.5 mil based on the tape base thickness. ATR and Capture tapes are identified in this manner as were Maxell tapes. A 7” reel would typically hold 1800 feet of 1 mil tape but only 1200 feet of 1.5 mil tape. For 10.5” reels, the tape lengths would be 3600 feet and 2500 feet respectively. If you refer to the catalogue information for RTM tapes, their LPR 35 tape is offered as 1800 feet on 7” reels and 3608 feet on 10.5” reels
 
I have 29 10.5” reels of 35-180 UD; 9 XLI-B (no shedding issues whatsoever on these); 15 reels of 7” 18-180 UD (don’t be afraid of using this - it’s excellent) of various ages and a number of other length UD variants and 6 reels 35-90 XLI. All I can say is I have not had any issues with the performance of Maxell UD or XLI tape of any age.
 
Numone said:
I have 29 10.5” reels of 35-180 UD; 9 XLI-B (no shedding issues whatsoever on these); 15 reels of 7” 18-180 UD (don’t be afraid of using this - it’s excellent) of various ages and a number of other length UD variants and 6 reels 35-90 XLI. All I can say is I have not had any issues with the performance of Maxell UD or XLI tape of any age.
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No doubt about it.
 
Thanks for the detailed replies on my question!

I agree that 'stupid" high prices for NOS Maxell are being paid. I can buy an ATR tape, and have a nice dinner for what NOS Maxell 10.5" reels go for.

I also am grateful for the experience with setting up a deck for a particular tape-and how some small irregularities can be seen. Yet, I am comforted by the experience on a day to day basis, when just recording or playing a tape, that no real world issues have been experienced.

Nearly all my old stock XLI is back coated, and I have no shed issues-another thing to be grateful for.
 
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