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Newbie question about the JBL l65a air port and tube amp suggestion.

It is said that JBL went to ferrite magnets (128H) due a shortage of cobalt for alnico (122A) and it was not a performance issue. Either way, I like those 122As a lot.
That is true. We're in the same place now with EVs. We will probably look back nostalgically to our IC engined cars in the not too distant future—probably about the same time EVs get replaced by Hydrogen-powered cars!

:beerchug:

But, in the case of AlNiCo being replaced by Ferrite, I ask again; Has their been a ferrite driver that replaced an AlNiCo driver in a JBL system where the performance suffered? It's a serious question. I may be old but, other than the D130 030s that have been in my home for over 65-years, I have limited experience with vintage JBL AlNiCo drivers beyond the less-than-spectacular Gen-1 L100 Century. I do have over 40-years of experience with 128H, H1, LE14H-1, and LE120H-1. :dunno:
 
We're all "guessing" or rather, speculating. The driver changes are just circumstantial evidence that JBL was trying to improve a product that had problems.

As for the AlNiCo change to ferrite being an issue, I'm sure it was. But has anyone found a ferrite driver in a JBL that was actually inferior to the previously used AlNiCo? I've never heard that complaint. The romantic view of the AlNiCo drivers and the blue frames and motors seems to be just that—blinded by the romance of vintage. Now those "new' ferrite drivers are vintage.

I view the A/H (magnet) driver preference they way I do tube/SS and dark chocolate / milk chocolate. Everyone likes what they like and like religion, ... I have no interest in proselytizing any particular technology.

When I was young, tubes were phasing out for the new technology, AlNiCo followed 20 years later, and we were all buying the new stuff not debating whether we knew more than companies like JBL, McIntosh et al. I do know that digital never has replaced analog in some people's homes (although in the sources and processing of the music it has), but most every other change eventually has been accepted as it hit the market as an improvement.

I consider myself very fortunate to have been on this stereo ride for over half a century, having experienced so many evolutionary and revolutionary changes, having the facilities to hear the difference (most of the time), and the budget (again most of the time) to own the systems that make me happy.

In my collecting/vintage phase I went through un-boxing many of my old systems and components, buying many more, meticulously servicing each, comparing the sound, and I have no doubt that there are many different sounds that we heard back then. Objectively the newer is always more accurate, more powerful, more "flat", linear, cleaner, quieter, ... all of the adjectives that would equate to the sound-pressure waves following the signal more closely and that is my preference. My wife OTOH really likes the sound of a 1960s era Mc tube amplifier, so that to me means that more accurate / modern still doesn't mean the most pleasant for everyone. My choice of super-accurate monitors room-corrected and EQ'ed to be as flat and perfect in-room as can be works for my obsessive by-the-numbers Engineer side and sounds great to me, where my wife prefers a bit of boost in the LF and tapering back the HF so it softens the sound a bit.

I have A/Bed so many speakers and components solo, with my wife, with my Musician son, with my Sound Engineer BIL, trying to detect "better" and most of the time it's between two very musical choices that need to be swapped multiple times to identify a difference if at all. Back in the 1970s, we did the same with multiple pairs of speakers from multiple manufacturers, and there definately was a difference. I do recall (for example) comparing the (new) L166 to the L100, hearing HF detail that was so much more abundant, and LF that had more authority. Of course my choice became clear. I never (in my recollection) however had a stereo shop line up an AlNiCo vs ferrite magnet model to compare. I can't recall anybody at the time pointing to the new model and saying that it didn't sound as good because of the new magnet.

So if anyone cares what my opinion is on the matter of L65 Jubals or Klipsch Heresey or (name your vintage) speaker is whatever makes you smile, looks good to you, brings back the best memories, makes your toes start tapping with your favorite music, can bring tears to your eyes is the best and nobody should tell you otherwise. I have my opinion on the magnet evolution (my present system's magnets are neodymium and I never questioned whether it is better) and it's just my taste.

And BTW, dark chocolate is better.
 
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That is true. We're in the same place now with EVs. We will probably look back nostalgically to our IC engined cars in the not too distant future—probably about the same time EVs get replaced by Hydrogen-powered cars!

:beerchug:

But, in the case of AlNiCo being replaced by Ferrite, I ask again; Has their been a ferrite driver that replaced an AlNiCo driver in a JBL system where the performance suffered? It's a serious question. I may be old but, other than the D130 030s that have been in my home for over 65-years, I have limited experience with vintage JBL AlNiCo drivers beyond the less-than-spectacular Gen-1 L100 Century. I do have over 40-years of experience with 128H, H1, LE14H-1, and LE120H-1. :dunno:
I like the sound of Alnico V magnet speakers. Always have. Early US-made Jensen and British Fane speakers. JBLs especially. There is a difference in the midrange and brightness between the Alnico and the ceramic or Neodymium magnet speakers.

All my guitars have Alnico pickups.

But that's only my experience and opinion. ;)

https://www.premierguitar.com/pro-advice/speaker-geeks/alnico-vs-ceramic-speakers
 
I enjoy pulling at the speculative threads on some of these wandering topics even though most of us - certainly this applies to me at least - have very litle idea what's really going on.

The 122A and 128H both worked very well and both had pluses. My impressions:

The 122A was a short lived product. It was only featured in the L166 (which was also short lived) and was one of three that shipped in the L65. So something happened to make JBL move to the 128H - I've heard it was the cobalt issue but maybe the low PE of 50 watts resulted in a lot of warranty replacement? Alnico demagnetizing? Regardless, it has excellent performance with a very low Fs of 17 and stiffness from the Aquaplas that helped it in the upper range. It is one of the best woofers I've heard. Also, the L166 is a truly excellent speaker and I can only assume there was some marketing or supply problem that caused them to be discontinued.

The 128H is also a great woofer. It is 10% lighter moving mass but in a much bigger frame with its ferrite magnet. It has a very good Fs of 20, handles 100 watts, and sonically is similar to the 122A,. It also perhaps makes up for the slight variation in resonance with longer excursion.

The cone cores are AFAIK the same for the 128H and 122A and they even have variations in size that were shared between the two (some 9.5" and some 9.75"). From my observations the differences are in the inclusion of a mass ring in the 122A and different magnets and presumably voice coils.

In listening there are subtle but readily audible differences especially with instruments in the lowest octaves. Kick drums are where I noticed the difference most. In my opinion the 122A has better sound but not by much, and other factors could have made the 128H the better product overall for JBL.
 
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In listening there are subtle but readily audible differences especially with instruments in the lowest octaves. Kick drums are where I noticed the difference most. In my opinion the 122A has better sound but not by much, and other factors could have made the 128H the better product overall for JBL.
In my limited experience, the L166 Horizon is one of the better "bookshelf" speakers JBL made. The bass is seamless to the mid and highs.

I only heard the L65 Jubals a long time ago. The guy who owned it insisted on listening only to Pink Floyd. I haven't willingly heard "The Wall" LP in decades. :(
 
In listening there are subtle but readily audible differences especially with instruments in the lowest octaves. Kick drums are where I noticed the difference most. In my opinion the 122A has better sound but not by much, and other factors could have made the 128H the better product overall for JBL.
The 122A and 128H were obviously mounted in their own enclosures with crossovers so what you are hearing are the speakers as a whole, not just the woofers.
 
True most of the time but not this one. These were both in L166s. The 128H is the recommended replacement for the 122A and one of the originals is currently down for repair. I believe later models like the L112 and L150 cross over at a higher frequency.

I just reread p1-3 - this thread has really been all over the place. Sorry @artemyst but thanks for giving us a forum for blathering!
 
True most of the time but not this one. These were both in L166s.
the L166 enclosure may not be optimum for either driver
The 128H is the recommended replacement for the 122A and one of the originals is currently down for repair.
JBL also recommended the 035ti as a replacement for the LE20-1 in the L55 which is a 14" 2-way crossed over at 2K yet the 035Ti has a fs of 2.2K, it's simply what they (JBL) had which is the same for the 122A, the 128H is what they had.
 
The 128H is what was used in the 4412A which has a similar enclosure to most of JBL book-shelf types, L100, 4311, etc. but the optimum enclosure volume for the 128H is 2.5 cu. ft. (which coincidentally is what the L65 enclosures are) so JBL would simply shoe-horn their drivers into boxes that were not ideal.

Another example would be the Baron (C38 enclosure), you could buy it with either the D123 (12" woofer) or D130 (15" woofer), I've heard both in that enclosure and the D130 (which is a nice sounding full-range) sounded like doo-doo but many of them were sold that way even though they were better suited to much larger enclosures.
 
the 128H is what they had
Yep. Gotta make the product margin. In any event, the 128H was the goto driver just like the LE5 and, later, the 035Ti. As you of course know, most/all JBL enclosures are vented so I think the tested optimal size isn't going to directly relate to the actual cabinets as designed.
 
We're all "guessing" or rather, speculating. The driver changes are just circumstantial evidence that JBL was trying to improve a product that had problems.

As for the AlNiCo change to ferrite being an issue, I'm sure it was. But has anyone found a ferrite driver in a JBL that was actually inferior to the previously used AlNiCo? I've never heard that complaint. The romantic view of the AlNiCo drivers and the blue frames and motors seems to be just that—blinded by the romance of vintage. Now those "new' ferrite drivers are vintage.

2420 replaced by 2425.

2420 had more gauss and was less strident.
 
The 128H is what was used in the 4412A which has a similar enclosure to most of JBL book-shelf types, L100, 4311, etc. but the optimum enclosure volume for the 128H is 2.5 cu. ft. (which coincidentally is what the L65 enclosures are) so JBL would simply shoe-horn their drivers into boxes that were not ideal.

Another example would be the Baron (C38 enclosure), you could buy it with either the D123 (12" woofer) or D130 (15" woofer), I've heard both in that enclosure and the D130 (which is a nice sounding full-range) sounded like doo-doo but many of them were sold that way even though they were better suited to much larger enclosures.
Actually, the 4412 and 4412A used the 128H-1 which, as far as I know, is different only in the black cone versus white.
I have had the D130 in the C35 for many decades and it performs well. The Viscount and Baron are just too small for it. The L112, 4412, and 4412A are actually too small for the 128H and H-1 but they were supposed to be bookshelf speakers. That's why I've always thought the L65 should sound better with the 128H-1 than even the 4412 does. My logic is not based on anything other than intuition. :dunno:
 
The 4412A was IMO not as good of a speaker as the 4410A. I had bought both models for the same room (same box size). The better enclosure size / LF driver size match along with the 4410As in-line drivers were also much better at imaging, which JBL claimed in the original literature also and I agreed. The 12" just couldn't perform as well in that box.
 
The 4412A was IMO not as good of a speaker as the 4410A. I had bought both models for the same room (same box size). The better enclosure size / LF driver size match along with the 4410As in-line drivers were also much better at imaging, which JBL claimed in the original literature also and I agreed. The 12" just couldn't perform as well in that box.
My JBL L110 (10" 3-way) are the best sounding JBL's I have in their overdone bookshelf size speaker
 
@BMWCCA In answer to your question, I think the 128H was a slightly different driver than the 122A and both had advantages. I would argue the 122A was better, subjectively and slightly better on low end performance e.g. resonance. However that didn't have anything to do with the ferrite which also powered a fine woofer.
 
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