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Non working Valencias, are they worth it?

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diamondsouled said:
Thought you might enjoy this:
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Thanks, diamondsouled! Very nice.

Does ANYONE KNOW where I can get those grill foams from?
I heard there was a member or 2 over at LHF who made them, but I'm not sure of their names.
I have the original masonite frames, with the backing fabric intact. The frames are perfect, I just need new foam!


And some Altec Badges!:yes:
 
I believe there was a guy who stepped up and made those funky sculpted grilles for the JBL L100s. You might do some searching on that to find the guy's contact info. I don't recall whether he was able to do the same for the later Valencias. I'd have a Plan B in my back pocket.....

Cheers,

David
 
dshoaf said:
I believe there was a guy who stepped up and made those funky sculpted grilles for the JBL L100s. You might do some searching on that to find the guy's contact info. I don't recall whether he was able to do the same for the later Valencias. I'd have a Plan B in my back pocket.....

Cheers,

David
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I'll do that thanks!

BTW, what is 'plan B'? LOL
 
Saint Johnny said:
<snip>
After reading, and re-reading the thread over at LHF, it seems a few members there are pleased with results.

Since I haven't seen the subject of replacing, (but only temporarily, for now)the original Altec drivers here, on AK, (yes, I searched). I wondered how many had given the option Zilch had so painstakingly laid out a listen, or even just considered it?
<snip>
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I've more-or-less done the "Zilch option" on one of a pair of Altec Carmels. As you may know, the Carmel is sorta like a Valencia but with 2x12" drivers instead of 1x15" and a box ~1.5x the volume. All else pretty much early Valencia. I've found that the BMS4550 + compensation network + revised Xover provides a very satisfying sound. No loudness compensation needed.

I have "theoretical" doubts that the 4550 + compensation network can simply be dropped on top of the stock N800-F xover w/o some degree of compromise. i.e. full potential of 4550 won't be realized but objective improvement compared to stock will occur. Others have apparently don it and have been satisfied. Whether you'll like the objectively improved high end will have to be your call. If I were in your position, but have my experience, I'd be finding some means of swinging both Altec refurb AND the BMS drivers. If you like the Altecs with whatever Xover config you end up with, the lightly used 4550s can be sold at probable loss...but not total. If you like the BMS drivers, the refurbed Altec drivers can be sold at probable gain.

FWIW, since the Carmels are a long-term project where authenticity and future resale are not factors, I'm most likely to be sticking with the BMS drivers. Someone somewhere in this thread noted that the Valencia midrange/vocal range was similar to original Quad ESLs. I have a pair of the ESLs and I guess I wouldn't describe stock Valencia mids quite like that. However, with the BMS driver and xover compensation option, that comparison becomes a whole lot more plausible. Must be the difference betw aluminum and polyester transducers. Another benefit (depending on ones POV) of the BMS conversion is that I'll probably be able to recover most of if not all experimenting expenses by selling off the 804As.
 
Member Jackgiff has three pair of Valencias. He installed tweeters in one pair, BMS 4550s in a second, and compared. He then installed BMS 4552s in the third pair and sold off his 806As. "Search" on his ID will find his threads here. He has subsequently built at least one additional system using BMS 4555 drivers on JBL PT waveguides in Altec Santana cabinets with vintage JBL LE14A woofers. I believe he considers that the best-sounding of all these systems.

Member Redboy is working with BMS drivers on Altec 511 horns with Barzilay LF cabinets. Last he reported, they were operative, and awaiting space inside his house (as opposed to in the garage) for quality listening evaluation.

Member Mxlews is using BMS 4550 on PT waveguides in vintage JBL C-36 cabinets with 12" JBL 123A-1 woofers. I have a pair of those, as well, using 2213H woofers.

Member Srbliss is coming to ZilchLab tomorrow to listen to a complete driver replacement proposal for his Valencias, which includes BMS 4550 on the stock 811B horns.

Member Steve O has already related his experience and advice regarding the BMS driver/crossover swap in Altec Carmels above.

Loudspeaker guru Tom Danley converted a friend's A7 VOTTs to BMS 4550, and last I knew, was using them in some of his own product offerings, as are his licensees.

I am aware of four other BMS conversions having been completed by others who are not AK members....
 
Yeah, Danley has been touting the BMS as a replacement for quite some time.

Interesting that this thread has gone from the OP asking about refurbishing Altecs to Zilch's agenda and now his defense of same.

So Zilch, when ya gonna pony up? You been here less than a year and have more posts than I do.
 
Suprised how good this sound

In preparation for my visit to the ZilchLab (I am bringing a Val to measure) I just swapped back to my "old" speakers to have something to listen to (AR srt 330's.) When I first hooked up the Valencias I thought something must be wrong because they had no bass. Now that I had them for a few weeks I have gotten used to them and the AR's sound like utter crap. Floppy loose bass (more bass than the Vals) and really wimpy tinny mids and highs, overall the sound is dull and "small"
 
Ahh, if J.B. were alive to hear this? To see fans of the 2 different phases of his work, and 2 different brands he created, argue over which MAY BE better! I wonder what he'd think of all this Altec vs JBL stuff today?:scratch2:
 
Most of the output of both companies came after the guy left.
I've got no argument with JBL.I've heard really good sounding JBLs.
The Valencias sound good too.
 
theophile said:
Most of the output of both companies came after the guy left.
I've got no argument with JBL.I've heard really good sounding JBLs.
The Valencias sound good too.
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True but....There must've been something about the man, to have had his hand in creating 3 remarkable companies that are still to this day, what 50-60 years after his death still spoken of in hallowed terms! He must've picked a very good group of advanced minds and personalties to carry on and improve upon his initial ideas/works. The same can't be said of someone like T.A. Edison, now can it?
 
Hey Johnny, I have not read all the debate on this thread, but I must offer my two cents.

Like you, I have several kinds of vintage speakers - Altecs, Rectilinear, JBL, Allison.

None of them is perfect and each has its own sound. When I work on them, my goal is make them as much like the original sound as possible - like they sounded when new.

So I recap the Rectilinear highboys, new surrounds for the JBLs, etc.

I enjoy the sound of each one. I'm not looking to make any one of them into the "perfect" speaker. I just want them to be themselves.

So I would try to restore those Valencias to sound like themselves. You will not be disappointed.

Congrats on a great score, by the way.

Cheers, Snade
 
Johnny,
From what I've read about James Bullough Lansing,he was an intuitive genius who could develop products from his mind's eye conception.
It sounds like a shame to read about the struggles he had on the business-side,because he certainly had a keen mind.
I would have been nice to see what he could have come up with if he lived as long as(say) Paul Klipsch(another brilliant man).
 
Snade, thanks for the kind words. I both agree and disagree, up to a point with what you say.
I am a conservationist at heart!! I wouldn't change the Altecs permanently just because I can. Trying other drivers would be more of an experiment, than anything else!

But on the other hand in my own personal adventures in vintage audio, I have found that two different speakers of the same brand and model DO sound different. So who's to say what they should have sounded like back then, in the first place. We'll never know, will we?
I've gone through a similar conversation with Pat Tobin about the Bozak 302's, I have. My pair have the paper cone mids and tweets, and Pat strongly suggests updating to the aluminum cone ones. Pat is of the mind that they should be updated. Simply because we can. The parts/drivers are readily available, and it's an easy fix to do. So why not?
 
Celt said:
Yeah it can, considering that he founded General Electric.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric
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I knew someone was going to bring up GE. But I'm prepared! :lmao:
Yes Edison founded GE. But the 'GE' Edison envisioned was a much different company than what it soon became, even in his lifetime, and he was forced out fairly early in GE's infancy. GE even dropped the name, 'Edison' fairly early on.
When one thinks of GE, the immediate association may not be with Edison as it's founder. I know I had no idea as a kid, that Edison founded what was EGE, until I read it about in some book.
But with Altec and JBL. One immediately associates them with the man and his ideas.
 
You know something S.J., I agree with Snade. It's really a shame that they are out of sorts. I think it would be helpful for you to be able to hear what the Valencias are all about before you go about changing them.

Just so you know, their is a lot of contradictory opinion on the necessity for driver changing, x-over modification and compensation as you have read here and other places as well.

My advice would be to take a deep breath, and do some further reading and study before you move head long into a particular school of thought.

Keep in mind that my advice is free and as you know, you don't get much for nothing. ;)

RC
 
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doucanoe said:
Just so you know, their is a lot of contradictory opinion on the necessity for driver changing, x-over modification and compensation as you have read here and other places as well.
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It's just different objectives, really:

If you want vintage performance, you restore, and enjoy what they were.

If you want modern performance, you upgrade, and enjoy that.
 
Hey Snade, I see that I errored in agreeing with Celt, when it was actually you I was agreeing with. Gotta give credit where credit is due :yes:


Not that I wouldn't agree with you Celt. :D
 
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