Now that's the build quality I'm talking about

[Vintagear]

That's an evasion. And you want to talk about something but don't want to over think it? That tells me can't define.

I know I can't define it; I don't know enough about electronics to dare. And it seems to be a knowledge of both old and new technology and techniques wold be needed to do so. Several miles over my head.

Comparing the heft and flash of a 1965 Cadillac to a 2014 Ford Focus might lead one to believe the Caddy is the better quality car. But it isn't.

So since you can't define it I guess in all of your 65 years you've never purchased something and had the pleasure of saying "Wow this (insert product) is really well built."

What a shame.

 

[Tom Brennan]

So since you can't define it I guess in all of your 65 years you've never purchased something and had the pleasure of saying "Wow this (insert product) is really well built."

What a shame.

That's another evasion and an appeal to emotion. You seem to have strong feelings on the need for quality build, yet can't (or won't) define it. I'm asking that it be defined, maybe others more knowledgeable than you or me can help, so we know just what it is we're talking about. Who can have a beef with that?

 

[Vintagear]

That's another evasion and an appeal to emotion. You seem to have strong feelings on the need for quality build, yet can't (or won't) define it. I'm asking that it be defined, maybe others more knowledgeable than you or me can help, so we know just what it is we're talking about. Who can have a beef with that?

That will, as usual derail the thread.

If you're having trouble with the definition you don't have to participate in this thread and let others that are not having issues with it continue.

 

[RamblinE]

Discussing the topic at hand in depth and trying to put an empirical definition down of what exactly constitutes good build quality would be derailing the thread?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[tubed]

I guess one could say build quality is a visual thing in terms of design, layout, capacitor/transformers size, wiring etc.
Of course, one can't see a cold solder joint

 

[RamblinE]

Let's introduce my $75 Chinese Topping T-amp. Nicely put together inside. They didn't skimp on cheap components. The case is metal. The face plate is aluminum as is that chunky looking volume knob. Someday I will need a bigger amp when I have more space but for a desktop amp? More than enough power on tap before the gratuitous and famous t-amp distortion kicks in.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Tom Brennan]

That will, as usual derail the thread.

If you're having trouble with the definition you don't have to participate in this thread and let others that are not having issues with it continue.

You might start a thread but you don't own it.

I think a discussion of what constitutes build quality is on topic, defining terms is vital to learning and understanding. So far I've seen no solid definition. But if you don't wish to discuss definitions you need not. I can't define it so I'll sit back and hope others can.

 

[just dave]

Solid construction,heavy,joints and seems nice and tight,smooth positive click to the buttons knobs and switches and quality materials steel, aluminum and wood not plastic for the outside and frame. How's that for starters?

 

[bhunter]

That's another evasion and an appeal to emotion. You seem to have strong feelings on the need for quality build, yet can't (or won't) define it. I'm asking that it be defined, maybe others more knowledgeable than you or me can help, so we know just what it is we're talking about. Who can have a beef with that?

I'm not at all certain that without manufacturer information on line yields and data on returns one can define build quality. I know that most electronic components are better today than they were 30 years ago. That said, for me, when I think of build quality, I look at the fit and finish of the product and extrapolating those, admittedly superficial features, to the quality of the rest of the product. I assume that if the manufacturer cared enough to deburr the edges on the interior of the case that he also cared about other more critical areas. Obviously, a nice case is not sufficient for a well built product, but IMHO it is necessary.

 

[RamblinE]

No! Just Dave and bhunter, you're derailing the thread!

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[tubed]

Back to the OP,
It certainly looks as if the build quality is as good as the top notch build quality Yamaha was known for in the past.

 

[Daunia 70]

Quality of build (at least from the outside) to me would mean quality thick metal face plates,real wood cabinets,all metal knobs/dials (with grub screws),metal speaker binding posts,real glass etc.. All this would add to the overall enjoyment,and make operation feel a pleasure (i.e.,Kenwood Supreme,Technics 9600 series etc). The heavier the better in my book!

 

[Vintagear]

You might start a thread but you don't own it.

I think a discussion of what constitutes build quality is on topic, defining terms is vital to learning and understanding. So far I've seen no solid definition. But if
you don't wish to discuss definitions you need not. I can't define it so I'll sit back and hope others can.

Perfect! BTW, I didn't mean that I own the tread, just that nobody was forcing you to participate in it.

You know the old saying about defining pornography right?

 

[kirk57]

Let's introduce my $75 Chinese Topping T-amp. Nicely put together inside. They didn't skimp on cheap components. The case is metal. The face plate is aluminum as is that chunky looking volume knob. Someday I will need a bigger amp when I have more space but for a desktop amp? More than enough power on tap before the gratuitous and famous t-amp distortion kicks in.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

No doubt about it, the build quality of that Topping is very impressive!

Apropos of nothing really, I'm reminded of a VERY short review in The Absolute Sound many years ago that went something like: "this amp is built like a brick sh*thouse. Unfortunately, it sound like one, too"

The manufacturer was not amused.

Edit: I have some T-amps and quite like the sound of them. The above was not meant to disparage any amp in particular, I just thought it was funny

 

[RamblinE]

Crisp and bright. Certainly will not be everybody's cup of tea.

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[foppy]

Yeah. When we start talking about sums of money in the thousands I'm not thinking refurb and resto wild card gear. I'm thinking plug and play. I'm not spending over a thousand dollars on something that has to go right to a tech. That's madness.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

It's not madness to someone who likes doing it.

People buy vintage (or antique) audio equipment, guitars, cars, furniture, houses, etc. all the time. And then they have these items refurbished by competent craftspeople.

While some people don't want to bother with it, others love it.

I don't know why this fact is so exasperating to some people.

 

[restorer-john]

The Yamaha has reasonably good build quality. It is certainly not stellar, and as for comparing to some of the seriously over engineered masterpieces of days gone by, it doesn't even come close.

That being said, it is a good effort I guess, for the times we live in and the limited market it is servicing.

There's caps lying on their sides, glued and zip tied down to pcbs (poor reliability), a small transformer hanging upside down supported only by its solder terminals (a recipe for failure), heaps of cheap multiway pcb plug/socket connections, it's full of ribbon cable to the front panel connections and associated edge connectors and the power output, heatsinking and output stage are far from impressive. Remember this thing costs $7k! It's worth about $2k tops if you ask me.

Build quality is not subjective, it's measurable.

As for analogue meters, it comes from the laboratory test equipment pedigree where high fidelity was born- in the lab. The 'Lab' look gave the gear a bespoke, test instrument, scientific, performance oriented purpose and that trickled down until practically any amp over 40w/ch sadly had meters strapped all over them.

I love meters, my test bench in my lab has gear all over it with analogue and digital displays. In amplifiers, I don't really care, but I have plenty with huge meters. I often switch them off, but mostly they are on. Do they influence sound quality? Not directly, but they are informative at times, offer a visual indication, and they are a core part of the enduring ethos that is high fidelity equipment. Like it or not, meters are cool, just like wood on the dash board of a real sports car, solid gold watches, handmade oak furniture, diamonds; they all exude quality and are an indication (generally) of build quality or at least effort to distinguish the product from a sea of blandness.

Poor build quality translates directly to poor performance. Excellent build quality translates more often to a greater likelihood of excellent performance.

 

[robgmn]

Don't know the specs but while I assume it's well built it does not make me think of the physical build quality of an AU-20000.
.

With the amount of times you've typed AU-2000 on this website, I could almost picture you on one of those "my unique obsession" TV shows caressing and kissing your Sansui after pouring a glass of wine for yourself and another for the amp.

Maybe it's just me, but the internal shot of that Sansui doesn't make me say "wow, look at that build quality!" (nor does an exterior shot).

 

[restorer-john]

Here's a few suggestions for determining build quality in analogue amplifiers:

Minimal use of moulded plastics, for cosmetic, operational, structural or support purposes.

Significant use of metals for chassis, casework, control knobs and shafts, internal supports and bracing and/or external support structures.

Signal path minimization via strategic placement of switching using high quality components.

Minimal use of multi-way connectors, ribbon cable, unshielded cable, surface mount componetry, monolithic integrated circuits.

Usage of high quality components from reputable suppliers.

Elimination of noise from micro controllers or removal of unnecessary CPUs and/or digital electronics.

Significant reserve capacity in transformer, rectifiers, main filter caps and all associated PSU feed wiring over and above the rated/designed performance targets.

Low impedance PSU lines. busses and output feeds.

Significantly over-engineered output stage to allow for virtually any conceivable load without destruction or premature shut-down.

 

[JoeESP9]

Those spring clip speaker connectors on that Sansui hardly say "high build quality". It would seem to me that any device using them is not in the "high build quality" category.