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Numbers behind belt drive and direct drive.

sm19422 said:
Replacing the belt on a turntable is worse then replacing belts on vacuum cleaners. That why I have a Technics SL-10.
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Not sure which vacuums and turntables you may have, but I can tell you doing a belt on a Hoover or a Rainbow is waaaay worse than doing a belt on my Thorens. Much dirtier too. On the other hand, I've not had to deal with the melted belt goop cleanup process either. Changing an idler wheel on the other hand can be a chore. E clips that go flying across the room suck.
 
All you have to do is listen to a few of these high end tables to understand why, beyond a certain threshold, nobody talks about specs. It really is that simple, and without that, the conversation is very much happening in the dark.

With that I will leave this thread because its going to be another thread where those with no exposure to what they're bashing, bash away in absence of any comparative sense to how the numbers translate (or don't translate) to sound quality.
 
JohnVF said:
All you have to do is listen to a few of these high end tables to understand why, beyond a certain threshold, nobody talks about specs. It really is that simple, and without that, the conversation is very much happening in the dark.

With that I will leave this thread because its going to be another thread where those with no exposure to what they're bashing, bash away in absence of any comparative sense to how the numbers translate (or don't translate) to sound quality.
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Sadly John, you are right. I already see a bunch of complaining about things that some of these posters know nothing about. Why can't we just enjoy whatever drive table we have. Why does it always go back to DD is better than Belt. Belt is better than DD. For the record, I can change the belt on my Thorens in under a minute. Same with my Technics BD tables.:smoke:
 
marcmorin said:
Really? No spindle in a bearing sleeve? No rotational thrust point? I wonder what could be producing the rumble numbers in the first place :scratch2:
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Almost all turntables have a main platter bearing...this was about a comparison between drive types.

But I agree, it's time to bail on this thread, as nothing good is going to come of it. :no:
 
The only thing i have to say is: Mediocre turntables have mediocre wow and flutter figures.

Some of the cheapest "audiophile" belt drives by Rega and Pro-ject have over 0.1% DIN weighted wow&flutter which is totally audible.

A very good, well designed belt, idler or direct drive turntable will have DIN weighted wow and fluter figures of 0.05% or lower, which can be considered inaudible.

Now, as for the Technics specs, they use WRMS (weighted rms) figures which always are going to be lower than the DIN wtd figures. So don't fall for the trap.

Also, they also cite the flutter measure "taken from the internal oscillator". This is totally misleading and useless.
 
measured from the internal oscillator, meaning they just monitor frequency output to the DD motor, and not the actual platter speed? Gotta agree with you there, misleading and worthless.
 
Just want to add one thing, though I said I'd step away. I don't mean to pick on you Flavio, as I'm not, its just something that came to mind with your post. Its unfair to mention the Rega as an "audiophile" turntable, as if that is somehow a bad thing and something that the vintage DD tables weren't after as well. It is simply "a turntable", and a cheaper one at that. Because it is a budget item, it suffers from some of the same types of compromises that affect any budget component. An SL-D2 isn't an SL-1200. Both are as 'audiophile' as a Rega, as their purchase was hopefully made to get better audio.

What you get with the Rega is a better arm. What you get with the budget technics below the 1200, is more speed control, but a worse arm. Cutting budget results in corners cut- you just pick and choose your battle and some people would rather live with wow, because they can't really hear it, than the sonic impact of a mediocre arm. Neither is right- but the arm quality isn't reflected in any of the specs (though there are specs we could use, if people wanted to).
 
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