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Official Camaro ZL1 Thread

hwirt said:
Seems like a good match up, both being 4000+ pound grand touring cars. The GT-R easily out ran the ZL1 on the track, guess the magic suspension isn't all it's cracked up to be.




Or maybe "a bit more work to do" :yes:
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I guess you forget the part where the GTR costs $40,000 more?
 
hwirt said:
Seems like a good match up, both being 4000+ pound grand touring cars. The GT-R easily out ran the ZL1 on the track, guess the magic suspension isn't all it's cracked up to be.




Or maybe "a bit more work to do" :yes:
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First off the GT-R is all wheel drive so it's NOT apples-to-apples !
 
Bigerik said:
I guess you forget the part where the GTR costs $40,000 more?
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True, but the results are what they are and no amount of excuses can change that. The performance gap is still significant, it will be interesting to see how the Shelby measures up to the GT-R. My guess is that the GT-R will come out on top. I won't be making any excuses.
 
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hwirt said:
That's just an opinion at this point in time, keep in mind that the GT-R is a moving target and will likely be faster next year.
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And how many people will be cross shopping a GTR and the ZL1? Even Road and Track said it was a somewhat silly comparison. For $100K at your Chevy store, there are lots of good Corvette options.

So you gonna trash the ZL1 next cause a F1 car will beat it around the track also?
 
hwirt said:
That's just an opinion at this point in time, keep in mind that the GT-R is a moving target and will likely be faster next year.
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And it will still be twice the price. I guess the $25K V6 Mustang is a POS since the ZL1 will decimate it around a track?
 
Bigerik said:
So you gonna trash the ZL1 next cause a F1 car will beat it around the track also?
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Talk about silly comparisons. My intent is not to trash the ZL1, I think it’s great. Just a bit surprised it was outrun so badly by a car with similar suspension and power to weight ratio. From all the hype about the magnetic shocks and all just thought it would do better.
 
Bigerik said:
And it will still be twice the price. I guess the $25K V6 Mustang is a POS since the ZL1 will decimate it around a track?
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I never referred to any car as being a POS. Guess it's just a case of you get what you pay for.
 
hwirt said:
Talk about silly comparisons. My intent is not to trash the ZL1, I think it’s great. Just a bit surprised it was outrun so badly by a car with similar suspension and power to weight ratio. From all the hype about the magnetic shocks and all just thought it would do better.
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Similar Suspension? How about AWD? The total driveline of the GTR is vastly more complicated than the ZL1. As it should be, for a car that costs $40,000 more.
If I remember correctly, the ZL1 is something like 17 seconds a lap slower than the GTR at the Nurburgring. No shock that it would be slower here.
 
I can't believe Road & Track made that comparison. Whatta joke. They say the ZL1 has no competitors? How about Shelby Mustangs and SRT Challengers?

The GT-R is a technology showcase, with DCT, AWD, and all that crap. ZL1 is manual and RWD. Maybe R&T's drivers just suck.

Let's see how that soulless video game thing does against its real competition, the ZR1. Oh wait, the ZR1 has crushed the GT-R numerous times already.
 
I would be shocked to see an SRT Challenger compete with a ZL-1, but what the heck I've been surprised before ......
 
Bigerik said:
Not even close. The GtR also has a fully computer controlled suspension. Actually, the whole damn car is computer controlled.
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And the ZL-1's suspension is controlled manually? Dynamically? Or via a computer?

The engine mapping on the ZL-1 is controlled by the driver, or by a computer?
 
Don't know what the GT-R is using, but Magnetic Ride is merely electrically-controlled shock absorbers. If the GT-R system is anything like the ABC (Active Body Control) that was on the Mercedes AMG CL55 Kompressor I drove a while back, it's a completely different level of control and sophistication. ABC is/was a fully active suspension, not "just" shock absorbers with electronic damping adjustment on the fly.
 
whoaru99 said:
If the GT-R system is anything like the ABC (Active Body Control) that was on the Mercedes AMG CL55 Kompressor I drove a while back, it's a completely different level of control and sophistication..
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GT-R does not use active suspension:

http://www.gtrnissan.com/en/web_GTR/media/detail_30543.htm

Suspension and brakes
- Considering the added weight of the driver on the right side in a right-hand drive vehicle and that the propeller shaft for front wheels is located on the right side of the vehicle, the GT-R’s suspension has been set asymmetrically for the left and right sides. For the front suspension, a harder spring rate on the left side has been set. For the rear, the suspension arm has been installed upward on the left side and downward on the right for an imbalanced wheel load when the car is stationary, but is equalized during driving, providing improved responsiveness and smoothness which the driver feels when steering, as well as enhanced cornering stability and riding comfort.
 
From Wikipedia:

Active suspensions can be generally divided into two main classes: pure active suspensions and semi-active suspensions.

Semi-active systems can only change the viscous damping coefficient of the shock absorber, and do not add energy to the suspension system. Though limited in their intervention (for example, the control force can never have different direction than the current vector of velocity of the suspension), semi-active suspensions are less expensive to design and consume far less energy. In recent times, research in semi-active suspensions has continued to advance with respect to their capabilities, narrowing the gap between semi-active and fully active suspension systems.

Magneto rheological damper

Another fairly recent method incorporates magneto rheological dampers with a brand name MagneRide. It was initially developed by Delphi Corporation for GM and was standard, as many other new technologies, for Cadillac Seville STS (from model 2002), and on some other GM models from 2003. This was an upgrade for semi-active systems ("automatic road-sensing suspensions") used in upscale GM vehicles for decades. It allows, together with faster modern computers, changing the stiffness of all wheel suspensions independently. These dampers are finding increased usage in the US and already leases to some foreign brands, mostly in more expensive vehicles. In this system, being in development for 25 years, the damper fluid contains metallic particles. Through the onboard computer, the dampers' compliance characteristics are controlled by an electromagnet. Essentially, increasing the current flow into the damper raises the compression/rebound rates, while a decrease softens the effect of the dampers. Information from wheel sensors (about suspension extension), steering, acceleration sensors and some others is used to calculate the optimized stiffness. The fast reaction of the system allows, for instance, make softer passing by a single wheel over a bump in the road.
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Sounds like computer controlled suspension.

Here's a good, brief article on active suspensions.
 
Right, which was my point...there are two completely different classes of electronic suspension. To just say they both have electronic suspension isn't enough detail to make a conclusion on the respective influence.
 
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