• Check out the Annual AK Secret Santa exchange Program, signup before November 23rd in the AK Charities & Christmas forum!

Older CD players?

You keep believing that BS and we'll keep picking up properly designed, superb sounding and excellent performing CD players of yesteryear for peanuts.

What you need to realise is the format peaked in 1990/1 with essentially all of the TOTL models from all the manufacturers, reaching the theoretical performance limits of the format.

The fact that many vintage CD players have never been bettered in performance on CD (16bit 44k), speaks volumes about their construction and design. Everything after was just jumping on the latest sampling rate or format bandwagon with many of those machines not offering state of the art performance.

Find me a modern CD player than tested at 118.2 S/N, 126.5 dB separation, linearity deviation at -100dB of 0.3dB and distortion at 0.0013% and a frequency response that had no measurable deviation (<0.01dB at 20k) and that is on CD. (16/44). I have several of those $2000 (1990 USD price) machines, because not only did they test better than anything on independent actual tests, they use arguably the most reliable laser and transport system ever made. Funny, I've never had to replace either a BU1 or the laser mech.

I am under no illusion whatsoever that vintage TOTL CD players are streets ahead in all the parameters that are actually important, performance, build quality, aesthetics, ergonomics and longevity and I laugh when I get to play with 'modern' players with their crappy SMPS supplies, stacks of cheap SMD lead free boards, bendy chassis, slow access times and light weights and average sound.

Vintage TOTL CD players rule at my place, on my test bench and to my ears.

botrytis said:
Newer CD players sound better than older ones period - using the internal DACs.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
botrytis said:
You will when it dies and then you have to buy another for that price.

Penny wise dollar foolish.

You can get a newer, better sounding player for a little more money than that. Newer CD players sound better than older ones period - using the internal DACs.
Click to expand...
Well, you've not heard my rig! And have you ever actually seen inside a TOTL vintage CDP? Maybe you have and need a refreshment. I'd open mine and post a pic, but I don't feel like going out to the garage for the Allen set to unscrew twelve counter-sunk Allen bolts so as to lift a 3.5 mm steel plate off the chassis. That's just the top cover. It doesn't have a 'hood'. The feet are adjustable for levelling. The transformer is an encased, finned, potted affair. They did not build these machines to fail. I've had it for years and there is no sign of it dying — not a hiccough.

There are a number of ways of doing this CDP thing. You do yours ... I don't think my way is the least bit "foolish" for want of a penny

Anyway, I think restorer-john has closed the book on this argument.
 
Last edited:
Having used both vintage and new, I'm strongly in the new camp. There are several highly rated CD-only players from Onkyo, TEAC, Yamaha, and others priced well under $200. All play multiple formats (including MP3 discs), have modern DACs, multiple inputs (some with USB), and remote controls (essential with a disc player!).
 
First - Dr. Audio, THANK YOU. I cleaned, then lubed the sleds, and went over the laser.

Have been enjoying Beck-ola now for about 25 minutes, nary a hiccup.

Will be doing the same to my 35 lbs of fun, the Yamaha CDX-1100u with its "MASSIVE POWER SUPPLY" (says that right on the top of either of the power supplies. Gotta love that)

Second - Botrytis, as usual, makes a great point, but doesn't give any sugar with his medicine. Some of us will get lucky with these older units, and some will not. Let's all not take the bait, and simply agree that the older units were truly built like tanks, and many, like my Yamaha, sound wonderful, even today.

If my 1100u responds like this Technics SL-PS700 does, I'll not need another cdp. I borrowed my general doctor's 1000 dollar modded Oppo, and yes, it was detailed, bright and shiny, but .....I still preferred my Yammie.

To each his own, but lets remain civil. Thanks again, Dr. Audio. :thmbsp:
 
IMO there are some seriously Ossified points of view here.
My embarassingly expensive Sony ES Gizmo simply sounded like Crap:
Tinny and Shrill.
But Hey! it was pricey and a Highly rated Sony. I suspect some 'still' think it's desirable.
My experience suggests the opposite. But I digress.
Consequently I 'put up' with that abomination for 10~ years (Shamefully in retropsect)
Clearly the issue was with MY ears.. Right??
Brothers' then New NAD CDP sounded like Angels in comparison.
The Hunt for a replacement was On.
Finally settled on a Toshiba DVD player.. a whopping 50$...New, 192 hz 24 bit Burr Brown dac tough to complain about
It sounded Wonderful .. V close to matching my Vinyl setup. Did a few Mods as gilding on the lily. Couldn't help myself.. now it beats my Thorens/ Grado black.
Bought a spare Toshiba against future needs. Still haven't had need for it yet.
It's neither about price nor geriatric pedigree but V careful selection that gives result.
 
My tank:



What can I say, but I got lucky at the thrift one day. Solid, heavy, awesome.

For the others talking about vintage Yamaha CDX players, I can attest that even the changers from the era are extremely durable. My 765 is one of the few pieces I've bought brand new, and it still keeps going.
 
bare said:
IMO there are some seriously Ossified points of view here.
My embarassingly expensive Sony ES Gizmo simply sounded like Crap:
Tinny and Shrill.
But Hey! it was pricey and a Highly rated Sony. I suspect some 'still' think it's desirable.
My experience suggests the opposite. But I digress.
Consequently I 'put up' with that abomination for 10~ years (Shamefully in retropsect)
Clearly the issue was with MY ears.. Right??
Brothers' then New NAD CDP sounded like Angels in comparison.
The Hunt for a replacement was On.
Finally settled on a Toshiba DVD player.. a whopping 50$...New, 192 hz 24 bit Burr Brown dac tough to complain about
It sounded Wonderful .. V close to matching my Vinyl setup. Did a few Mods as gilding on the lily. Couldn't help myself.. now it beats my Thorens/ Grado black.
Bought a spare Toshiba against future needs. Still haven't had need for it yet.
It's neither about price nor geriatric pedigree but V careful selection that gives result.
Click to expand...

The tinny, shrill sound you describe is NOT due to the type of DACs used, it is due to the output opamps used, which can be upgraded in about 30 minutes. I have done this many times and the difference is profound. You get nice solid bass and silky highs.
 
onwardjames said:
I had read your sticky, and decided to try that with my leaping backwards, mercurial Yamaha cdx-1100U

Haven't purchased any machine oil, any you recommend? And thanks for the tips.
Click to expand...

Sorry I couldn't reply to this in time. I use Tri-Flow, or Dupont Silcone Oil With Teflon.
http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubricants/en_US/products/silicone.html
Both are excellent. This may not help your Yamaha, if it has gear drive it probably isn't the sled but you can try it. Also put a couple of drops of oil on the top bearing of the disc motor. For that I use this light oil I got at the hardware store. Don't use 3 in 1, it gums up after awhile. Sewing machine oil is good.
 
restorer-john said:
You keep believing that BS and we'll keep picking up properly designed, superb sounding and excellent performing CD players of yesteryear for peanuts.

What you need to realise is the format peaked in 1990/1 with essentially all of the TOTL models from all the manufacturers, reaching the theoretical performance limits of the format.

The fact that many vintage CD players have never been bettered in performance on CD (16bit 44k), speaks volumes about their construction and design. Everything after was just jumping on the latest sampling rate or format bandwagon with many of those machines not offering state of the art performance.

Find me a modern CD player than tested at 118.2 S/N, 126.5 dB separation, linearity deviation at -100dB of 0.3dB and distortion at 0.0013% and a frequency response that had no measurable deviation (<0.01dB at 20k) and that is on CD. (16/44). I have several of those $2000 (1990 USD price) machines, because not only did they test better than anything on independent actual tests, they use arguably the most reliable laser and transport system ever made. Funny, I've never had to replace either a BU1 or the laser mech.

I am under no illusion whatsoever that vintage TOTL CD players are streets ahead in all the parameters that are actually important, performance, build quality, aesthetics, ergonomics and longevity and I laugh when I get to play with 'modern' players with their crappy SMPS supplies, stacks of cheap SMD lead free boards, bendy chassis, slow access times and light weights and average sound.

Vintage TOTL CD players rule at my place, on my test bench and to my ears.
Click to expand...


^+1
Couldn't agree more.
 
dr*audio said:
The tinny, shrill sound you describe is NOT due to the type of DACs used, it is due to the output opamps used, which can be upgraded in about 30 minutes. I have done this many times and the difference is profound. You get nice solid bass and silky highs.
Click to expand...

Do you have a particular favorite, based on supply voltages?

Just wondering....
 
Not sure if the OP will return, but in case he does, I can report my long-term satisfaction with my Rotel RCD 991AE (Although I don't suspect the "AE" means anything is different over the non "AE"s)

The RCD 991 got a lot of excellent regard when it came out in the late 90's, selling for around $1,500. I bought mine used a few years ago from a local Rotel dealer for $350. It was a not-too-subtle upgrade from the newer RCD 1070 I had been running for a few years prior. Both these Rotels play any Redbook CD you put in them. They even decode HDCD.

As for universal players, I only have experience with a couple. The best one being a Marantz DV8400 that i also own. The Marantz, even though a bit newer and a higher original MSRP cannot render an SACD with enough resolution to beat the Rotel's standard/Redbook performance.

From these experiences, I shy away from multi-format players (also because I don't have more than one format to play)
 
dr*audio said:
Sorry I couldn't reply to this in time. I use Tri-Flow, or Dupont Silcone Oil With Teflon.
http://www2.dupont.com/Consumer_Lubricants/en_US/products/silicone.html
Both are excellent. This may not help your Yamaha, if it has gear drive it probably isn't the sled but you can try it. Also put a couple of drops of oil on the top bearing of the disc motor. For that I use this light oil I got at the hardware store. Don't use 3 in 1, it gums up after awhile. Sewing machine oil is good.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, I'll grab some sewing machine oil, ought to find that easy enough.

Wouldn't you know, I used 3 in 1 on the Technics? (easy enough fix, tho. Hasn't missed a single beat for 3 days now!:banana:)
 
onwardjames said:
Thanks for the advice, I'll grab some sewing machine oil, ought to find that easy enough.

Wouldn't you know, I used 3 in 1 on the Technics? (easy enough fix, tho. Hasn't missed a single beat for 3 days now!:banana:)
Click to expand...

Should be good for at least a year with the 3 in 1.
 
CD players have come a long way since 'before'.

If you listen to CDs... get a $300+ 'new' one.
 
Last edited:
A few examples of excellent old CDP's... TOTL Pioneer PD-91/93,NEC CD-903,or Micromega Solo H all from the very late 80's/early 90's... they were built to last back then (you can tell just by their weight/build quality alone),therefore they have excellent heavily engineered transports,power supplies/transformers (gives that certain heavy "oomph" feeling to the music which is all but sadly lacking nowadays). Also,if you hook 'em up to something like a Marantz CDA-94 DAC using quality interconnects and/or optical cable you'll be laughing even more!

BTW,the twin TDA-1541 DA converters in the Marantz CDA-94 aren't manufactured anymore because of their relatively high production costs in today's low quality standard CD/DVD era. These were among the best D/A converters ever manufactured. It's true what they sometimes say... "you never miss a good thing till it's gone"!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom