on ebay YAMAHA CDX 10000, CX 10000, MX 10000

[Yamaha1]

If I were in US currently I would sell my stocks, sell myself in case anyone's interested to buy these, after all life is too short not to enjoy. I am a big fan of distorted, old and slow sound, after all my ears are not that young either, my brain and my ears can't take the sound from the new gen speakers and amps.

 

[Fuzzy Logic]

Price of kidneys can't buy us the MX series, 3rd world countries have ruined the human kidney market sadly.

Lungs are still fetching a good dollar on the organ transplant market.

 

[restorer-john]

mescut...no stirring of the yamaha lovers pot.:nono: Yamaha1 will bite and the thread will get closed. Here is the catalogue details of that lovely gear...

 

[Yamaha1]

Lungs are still fetching a good dollar on the organ transplant market.

Only non smokers and that you have to prove that you lived in a clean environment.

Check out the banned thread on 10000 series and you will see what legends are made of.

http://www.yamaha10000.com/

 

[mesut BALCI]

this is the dollars and sense section, this is my thoght. Respect for new engineering and new products are also necessary too. You can find the same thoghts easily for old cdplayers and for the yamaha searching the net repeating again. Or in an easier way you can go your nearest hifi dealer. I know good and bad sides of old and new, I have 1960 to 2000 range in my use and experiences up to 2007 products, direct A/B testings in the range of 1960-2007 on the same table. Get a 100$ 2007 dvdplayer, and you will get confused with the result. I am happy with my thoghts and results, listen to my semi old system knowing its degree and respect all units from 1960 to 2000. You can make threads closed but truth always continues:yes: This is a fact, belive or resist, this is everyone's own life...

 

[epoch5]

I'll take 10 of them, NOT!

 

[Elroy]

MESCUT
You make a valid point in your new vs. 20 yr. old digital technology comparison, but in my opinion it only goes as far as the CD player but as for the CX-10000 pre-amp and the MX-10000 amplifier- I personally wouldn't agree. Yes, major strides have been made in digital CD player and digital/ analog coversion technology and the difference is substantial. Having said that though, you still have to realize that these Yamaha 10000 series components are some of the most all out, cost is no factor, no holds barred, built by hand and WAY ahead of their time- components EVER made in the history of audiophiledom! SO you can't just lump these pieces with other 20 year old HI-FI and say "todays $700 gear performs just as well or better". With these pieces I would hold my tongue before uttering such a statement, primarily because you have never A/B ed THESE components and you just don't know. Personally, I would LOVE to do an A/B comparison of the Yamaha CDX-10000 and my Sony DVP-NS999ES which is a recent fairly high end DVD/ SACD/ CD player, and just see what the difference REALLY is. But I am cofident that the amp and pre-amp would not be outdone by ANYthing made today and I mean to MY ears- not specs on a piece of paper. Anyway, yes truth always prevails, but in this case only the lucky winner of this auction will have the priveledge of knowing the truth and of course those few who are fortunate enough to already own them.

 

[Yamaha1]

I have the Yamaha DVD-S2300 Mk-I SACD player, I also have the CDX-1050 and Accuphase DP70V CDPs, now my cousin here runs the biggest audio chain in city, almost all the esoteric high end brands are carried by him, I get regular chance to do A/B, I can tell you, the multi bit CDX-10000 blows away today's as well as yesterday's CDPs including my Accuphase DP70V which was a hallmark of sorts, Yamaha has always gone multi-bit for its high end CDPs including CDX-2000, even though Yamaha was making S Bit Plus and Pro Bit, both of which were highly acclaimed, there was a reason for that, the definition and sweet sound of multi bits were totally lacking in the single bit technology, today's DVD players have the crappiest DACs, they are anticipating customers would use coax/optic out and use the receiver's built in DACs so the sound part is mostly neglected, most concentrate on the video part. Also take a look at the tray mechanism on the CDX-10000, it blows my already sturdy and over engineered tray on the DP70V, show me one CDP of today having a tray like that, the CDP weighs in at almost 55lb, don't think there is junk in that player to make up all that weight.

 

[Elroy]

Well said Yamaha 1. Like I said I would love to be able to do an A/B and find out the REAL truth. Thanks for that background on DACs- interesting info.

 

[Bigerik]

The MX-10000 beats any amp

Are you saying it beats any amp Ever made anywhere by anyone? I will accept that it might be the best made by Yamaha...

and of course all the amps made by Yamaha, past and present, my friend in Europe paid Euro 9000 for mint condition MX-10000, he put them on his NS-2000 speakers, he also bid and won CDX-10000 for Euro 6000 and now is busy bidding for a CX-10000 and NSX-10000, the CX-10000 has the sweetest DAC ever built period. Man this is as close to audio Nirvana as one can get.

I sure don't buy that it is the sweetest dac ever built. There have been HUGE strides made in the understanding of digital performance in only the last 5 years, let alone the last 20.

 

[Yamaha1]

Its the best amp I have heard and that doesn't include Yamaha, have owned Krell in the past along with Bryston, B&K, MF and have had the chance to audition thoroughly the likes of Accuphase M-8000, of course this is my opinion, as for DACs, I am yet to see or hear the advances, have had the chance to hear Wadia, Krell, MF, Gryphon, Ah Njoe Toeb which is highly rated by Stereophille, if you have not heard the 10,000 series, then my words won't be enough to convince you.

 

[Vint Age]

Its the best amp I have heard and that doesn't include Yamaha,

:scratch2:

 

[Elroy]

One thing I am noticing here is that apparently, Yamaha1 is the ONLY one among us who has actually had the privelidge of auditioning these pieces. Personally, I would give his assesment of these components substantial validity.

 

[Yamaha1]

:scratch2:

Meant not only Yamaha but others as well.

ElRoy,

Thanks for the faith in my opinion, but as we all are quite subjective in our views, its best to audition on your own and come to judgement. I came to Yamaha after using and checking out almost all other brands, big and small. For the 10000 series, I was extremely lucky to have auditioned them at the Japanese amabassador's house where I was invited for lunch, a Yamaha Grand piano was also played there by his daughter, then the system and even though my 1000x and M do a swell job with the piano, with the 10000, I was hard pressed to distinguish between the real piano and recording. Must be my defective ears.

 

[mesut BALCI]

Hey people you have the chance of being rich. If this is the best system ever, you can mail to audiophils living in the far east buying a cable only for 50.000$ and to some other that they curently have the chance of getting the best sounding system ever, cost no problem bidding, you can buy and then sell the system to them easily for 400.000$ which is the usual price of some very special combinations

There is a saying in Turkey:
The goods of richman make the poorman tired while talking about the goods.

A rich man will buy them for 15.000$, will listen to, and put in his collection and more probably we will still be continuing to bla bla. There are some things that are produced for only rich people for the demand, causing the demand, we cannot put limits on social life. They are good or bad not for common people and you can not get them even 20 years later.

Yamaha1, you are about to be rich man, dont miss this opportunity. My friend is about to go to Singapour, he can make you contact to people there so you can gain 385.000$ shipment is no problem for them with DHL costing 2000euro. But I ask only 7k from you if you finally be rich, I will buy electrocompaniet player, gryphon amp and avalon speakers, all second hand.

I loved this thead so much

 

[Elroy]

BALCI:
You lost me on that one! I am not sure, but I think I am detecting some sarcasm in there somewhere :scratch2:

Thanks for the faith in my opinion, but as we all are quite subjective in our views, its best to audition on your own and come to judgement.

Yamaha1:
My point was not that I blindly accept your opinion as my own but that your opinion is probably the most valid made here due to the fact that it is based on an actual LISTEN to the components we are discussing in this thread. I too am very much a Yamaha fan and of the Yamaha philosophy of sound. Based on my personal experience and fascination with Yamaha Hi-Fi, I have no doubt that we are probably very much on the same page.

 

[mesut BALCI]

of course not,

I tried to dig out best old units in history too, I am a poor man, I have high resolution vfet amp which is killer for 200$. 100$ even for only this power amp, and another 100$ for really good peamp. each of them are hard rivals for new products regarding resolution. Have you ever heard seas alnicos from 1960s? Also my 1960 alnico bookshelves sound just the same as Sonus Faber Guarnery(12000$ new) which I compared but lacks that accuracy, smoothness and capability to handle all given tracks is not as always succesfully as Guarneri. Guarnery was first speaker I have heard that plays that much faster, open and lively among boxed speakers several years ago . I bought seas for 50$. For 50$ I feel as but with 12.000$ or 6k used price for 40 years old speaker saying that this is the best ever is out of logic, and I dont need it for 6.000$. And now I would say that the seas is fastest speaker ever and regarding the musicality and caused feelings too, the best speaker ever, it is the one that faster than aer mk1 fullrange(experimented) and faster than ns1000 2000 therfore best ever... Only If I would not listen to Guarnery. And I compared to both live jazz concerts I commonly listen to, and also to guarnery and other speakers not only piano.

So posts are only thoghts which means only known logical experiments and knowledge. Yamaha1 feels what I feel for seas alnicos. We will see the result when someone compares it to todays products. My thoght is no old product can beat the best new products or as good as 20.000euro totaling new products and can never make themselves preferable to serious new rivals and I feel that way for the yamaha units as I wrote in page1 due to what I see from my experiments, I dont know the difference between ns1000 and nsx10000 but seas is faster than 1000 and guarnery is better than seas so regarding only speakers, result is risky enogh for 20.000euros second hand for yamaha serie, regarding the cdplayer to me much much more risky, and because I have experments with passives, and tae88 high resolution preamp of 80s, seing how bad again a tae88 is on some properties comparing to passive, knowing there are better 4-5k new preamps than passion passive even owning passive advantages, I hope Yamaha1 will finally be right. Sonicaly, pre say worths 2-3k, amp is 2k with 80s transistors-mos, player is 0,5k, and total sound will lack on many properties and easily not be preferable totally comparing to 7-8k(including speakers) 2nd hand new system's extreme musical performance(so what will be the price of 5k rather than better one's 7k?, well say it is 5k lacking on some), and this is the start price put logically and system needs mods and optimisations on electronics yet. Do you know how good new speakers are on distorsion levels? extensions easily reaching to 45-60khz? Find ones of ns10000x and compare to new drivers. >2000 especially last 3 years here is a hell for vintage audio. My lovely year 2000 xa7 is even a toy comparing new units. Buying 20 years old unit for 20.000euro? I hope.

That is enogh for me, we will see, my thoghts are these, thanks to everyone, happy listening :thmbsp:

 

[Yamaha B-2]

The reworked TA-N7B amps seem to be doing a pretty good job of holding their own against the new gear, if Mirko and Kristof can be believed.:yes: Some of the vintage Kenwoods had 200MHz transistors in them, as well (can't be replaced today, unfortunately). I would guess that even the better gear today is not that much faster. Perhaps the Halcro, which is designed to be fast using V-fets, which are not VFETs, but a vertical FET, the internal design of which I am not familiar. But, who has $39,000 for such an amp (to say nothing of the needed preamp, etc.). While what you are saying is correct for the "nth degree", very few of us live in the "nth world". It simply costs too much.

 

[whyaskit]

Ok, I usually do not opinion much about the gear I have but here it is.

I own a CDX-10000. It is easily the best CDP I have ever owned. I took it to check out with gear a friend of mine owns. He owns Wadia, Sony SCD-1, and Levinson digital equipment. It held up very well and I think it was equal to or a little better than the Sony, equal to the Wadia (it was a CDP also 850 or 860 I think). It was just below the Levinson (30, 31 combo?!?) transport and DAC. I was able to use it as a transport with the DAC and actually thought it a little more solid that the No. 31. As a transport, the 10000 is top rate. It would be very costly and difficult to make as nice a transport, especially when mixing and matching brands.

There is a more to a good CDP than the DACs involved. This particular player is solid metal, both the case and the transport itself. The power supply is like what you would find in a 50 watt amplifier. I have personally owned Sony, Yamaha (other than this), CAL, plus a few others and again, this is the best I have owned. Unless I were to spend several thousands of dollars, I am not sure it could be bested. A $500 player, IMO, would not sound better. At least I have not heard one that would.

The funny thing is, the CDPs all sound really good but different kind of good. The Yamaha sounds solid, not like the HiFi sound we all know but very... musical, I hate that word, but a good cd sounds like music in this thing (the Wadia is much the same, the Levinson too but with a added bit of detail, just what should be there is). Every vocal and instrument is clear and present but never, ever overwhelming (the Sony kinda pushes the detail, spot lights it, when side by side with the others). I wish I could get the full sound out of this player, but the rest of my system is a step behind. (SA-9100, 535, and Sony GX9ES amplification. Definitive Technology speakers) It all sounds fantastic but I have heard better. I am biased and this is my opinion, I love it! I would be happy with any of the aboved mentioned CDPs, and I realize that there are better, but at what price and (yes, to me this counts) would it be a nice to look at, even when it was just sitting slient. Ans. Not that I could afford.

Alright, that is enough. If I could, I would, without hesitation, snap up the rest of the gear. If the two other components are even close to the performance of the cd player, Then this really could be the holy grail.

The system we listened through included Levinson amps, WATT/Puppy and Dunlavy speakers. He has a couple of systems, but don't we all!

edit- I should claify that the Sony was only used as a cd player, as a SACD player, I thought it better than all but the Levinson. If I were to rank, it would be
1- 30/31
[insert good sized gap]
2- Wadia
3- Sony because of its SACD ability
4- Yamaha

As a transport I liked it better than the rest but if pushed would not want to break up the 30/31 combo...Ok I am done

 

[Negotiableterms]

Thanks, whyaskit, for a great post. Because of the advances in basic digital technology between then and now, it's all but impossible for these older digital units to equal the newest generation. The CDX-1000 is 4x oversampling at 18 bit resolution. Very tough for it to keep up with a current 24/192, and even harder against the newest 24/384 and 24/768 DACs.

To me, the major problem with the gear on offer is the vintage of the DACs. The amp isn't affected, and likely sounds marvelous, as these were truly statement pieces. Using the CDX as a transport is a splendid idea, and if the digital side of the preamp can be bypassed, the analog side is undoubtedly a fine unit.

Now, whether they're worth $5000 or more when you have to add an expensive DAC and bypass part of the preamp is another question, and no doubt any Yamaha collector will answer it differently than someone else.