on ebay YAMAHA CDX 10000, CX 10000, MX 10000

[mesut BALCI]

Where have you been whyaskit??

So Yamaha1 is right on dac section, very unique dac and player worths a good deal of 2- 2,5k.

Hi Glen:
This is my problem with my system. I have those 200mhz vfet in my amp but hearing the sound of 7k 2nd hand gryphon system, I just cant dare now to buy ta-n7 which will make the money I spent to my system almost equal to that of 7k system. Risky. If it equals then I will have an 30 years old system pron to failures. My unique property inisting on current setup is virtual room created is equal or may be better than that system but musical presentation, control, extensions, flow,arghh even with ta-n7, I dont know if this is reachable, at least with not my xa7 and monitor audios.

electrocompaniet(3k) + ta-n7(1k) + avalon spk(4,5k) and bags of spare vfets and ta-n7 boards totaling say 8k with discount, but now missing preamp or tae88 to continue 7k(second hand) is the hell for best vintage gears.

 

[whyaskit]

It is true that the DAC section is very much out of date. But the rest of the cdp helps it to maintain a very nice level of music and sound. I actually have been thinking of a new DAC. I was wondering how good the "$50 DAC" would be, and if their would be a jump in performance that would justify its use. I already know that the Levinson is beyond my reach right now, but many other DACs are out there and I hope to explore this in the future. It is not a question I can answer right away but with a little luck will be able to do so soon.

 

[bastek]

I can never hear any difference between the analog and optical input of my 20 year old Grand Integra integrated amp., so what's the point of having better DACs? These Yamaha's are over-engineered not only for better sound, but mostly for looking and feeling the units even when they're off . So, they are targeted at deep pockets, but only audiophiles can enjoy them and be proud owners. As for audio quality, this is "diminishing returns" law at its best.

 

[the-real-mandak]

whyaskit you make a really good point; the DAC is only a small part of the sound coming from the CDP, there is much more to it than that. Power supply, op amps, noise, timing, etc...

And please don't put the CDX-10000 thru a $50 DAC, at least get something in its class like the apogee mini DAC.

mesut: There is no dough that today’s DAC's are better than the ones in the CDX-10000, but where have you ever seen the DAC's of to day put in a machine like the CDX-10000?

----EDIT----

Of curse the CX-10000 has a source direct function; the sound is not running thru an A/D converter. I have the CX-1000 witch uses the same principle design as the CX-10000 (but in a much smaller scale), when this is pressed only the volume control is in (and it can be controlled by the remote

 

[Yamaha1]

Bear in mind, Yamaha was already making 1 bit DAC when they decided to go multi bit 4x oversampling, same was the case with CDX-2000, my single bit CDX-1050 from Yamaha is of the same era. As I said before, I get regular chance to hear today's DVD/CD players, the onus now a days is on video an HT, we all know that, 2 channel audio be dammned, and whatever the so called exoterica is being peddled, its usually the same old wine in new case and hype and of course, insane price which kind of supports human ego.

Real Mandak,

I still use the built in DAC on my CX-1000 and sometimes even that amazes me with its musical nature.

El Roy,

My logic for Yamaha goes like this, off all the companies I own, this is the only unique one which make musical instruments as well as electronics and on my last visit to Japan, at Yamaha's factory, I saw majority of their electronic engineering staff had some kind of musical background, its a requirment there. Also Yamaha benefits from their parent Sumitomo who also own Elna and Bando as well as metal and alloy companies, thats why you see Yamaha components have exotic materials and yet don't have $40,000 price tag

 

[the-real-mandak]

Yamaha1 are you sure you mean CDX-2000; to my knowledge there is no such model, but there is CD-2000 witch uses the Burr-Brown PCM54HP DAC.

Or you might mean the CDX-5000, witch has the Yamaha 18bit (Hi-Bit) DAC and 21kg of Yamaha quality?

I also use the CX-1000 converter, running the CDX-870 into it with an optical cable. I wanted to run the computer digital to, some how I just can’t get my old SoundBlaster Live to deliver the sound.

 

[Yamaha1]

The CDX-5000 you mention with wooden panels is shown as CDX-2000 in my US catalog, it uses multi bit DAC.

Talking about sound card, I was extremely lucky in getting both the Yamaha DXG-Waveforce as well as the pro SWXG-1000, no new sound card with the exception of M Audio comes close to those to in terms of fidelity.

 

[the-real-mandak]

I have to correct my self, I found the CDX-2000. It is not a renamed CDX-5000, rather an overworked CDX-1100.

 

[Yamaha B-2]

CDX-2000 is the matching CDP for the MX/CX/TX-2000 series. The little brothers of the MX/CX/CDX-10000 series (don't believer there was a TX-10000). rhioki has both the MX-2000 and the matching TX-2000. Lucky rhioki. :thmbsp:

 

[the-real-mandak]

I have not been able to find the CDX-2000 in the European catalogs, over here the CDX-2020 was the companion of the XX-2000 line presented in 1989.

If it is the 1100 in discuses, then it would have the Burr-Brown PCM56 DAC.

It would be nice if you can do a scan of the catalogue Yamaha1, PM me for my e-mail. Who knows, maybe they put there own DAC in a 1100 and called it 2000.

B-2 the only unit of the XX-2000 series that really is somewhere close to the XX-10000 series is as far as I know the MX-2000. If the CDX-2000 also is, it would be a surprise to me.

 

[restorer-john]

I would happily back the D/A in the CDX10000 to better just about any piece of modern 'esoterica' in real measured results. I'm not talking anything other than actaul measurable parameters. That is, after all, what a D/A exists for. All this talk about 'digital has got better' etc means nothing in the context of this discussion as we are talking about a real, actual product, built using design processes and thought that no tin-pot, fly by night, flavour of the month 'hifi' company these days could even dream of. The engineering in the loading mechanism alone would send a company broke these days. Yamaha was big enough and bold enough to build a cost no object range- which means engineering, design and performance the likes of which we will never see again. The japanese will never do it again and let's face it, they were the only ones who could do it then and now.
The performance of the Yamaha CDX10000 D/A hit theoretical maximums (dynamic range) as did Sony with their X7esd in 1989. Sony trimmed the 4 most significant bits and used 18x8 with 45bit noise shaping. 126.5dB separation, perfect linearity, etc etc and the Yamaha CDX10000 bettered a few again. I have a REAL review (ie full of measurements) by the late Len Feldman if anyone wants to see it. Sony made the X77esd the next year and its performance was worse, but hell, I bit was a lot cheaper to implement...Multibit has always been used for the best machines because it is technically better in every resepct and much more expensive.
Now for the subjective bit: I prefer the sound of multibit D/A's because they sound better, more accurate and quieter in the quiet bits and louder when they should be loud and cleaner...to me.
I was thinking about the centennial gear yesterday, hoping an AK'er can buy it and wax lyrical about it until everyone here is sick of it.:yes:

 

[whyaskit]

Sorry, longer than I thought it wouldbe.

whyaskit you make a really good point; the DAC is only a small part of the sound coming from the CDP, there is much more to it than that. Power supply, op amps, noise, timing, etc...

And please don't put the CDX-10000 thru a $50 DAC, at least get something in its class like the apogee mini DAC.

For the record, I bring up the $50 DAC, mentioned in a couple of other threads, because, as I read it, their are many who have stated in this thread that any more recent DAC should be a large improvement over what is offered in the CDX-10000. I, being the curious soul that I am, wonder if this would hold true, so I have considered it. I doubt that the number cruncher would stay in as a the DAC, but if there were to be a vast improvement (and I doubt there would be, as I have stated it is very nice sounding unit :thmbsp: ) It would stay. I would use of this DAC, probably, in my bedroom or as part of a better computer based system.

Any DAC upgrade would probably be few coins, something I am only starting to see more of. To be honest about it, I love the sound as it stands.

I stated in an earlier post that I am not one to offer opinion on the equipment I own, other than to say "I like it" or the like. The reasons are that I am at a point where I trust my likes and dislikes far more than the tastes of others and think that others should try and find that same area. This is only aquired through asking yourself what you value most and personal experience. I choose to keep a 20 year old cd player because it sounds pleasant to me and I love the look. Of the 3 other units I did the comparison with (something I did more out of curiosity than to assess value), the only one I would trade for is the Wadia. Why? Same two reasons. Am I stupid if I were to not accept a trade for the Levinson gear. Probably. Do I care? No, because I know what I like and those excellent sounding but kinda plain black boxes just do not do it for me.

Good luck all, in your musical journey, Jason

 

[the-real-mandak]

I think I have to clear that when I speak about DAC improvement, then I speak about the chip and the chip only. You can't use the audio signal coming out of the chip for much; it has to go thru an analogue process before it is ready to leave the CDP (or external DAC). This is where the CDX-10000 shines with its cost no object and external DAC's like the number cruncher fails.

And yes, always trust you’re ears.

 

[whyaskit]

Agreed, but I still think it could be a bit of fun,and really, that is all I am after! Jason

 

[the-real-mandak]

:thmbsp:

 

[Yamaha1]

I will say, specs don't make sound, nothing can be true in case of CD and DAC, yes newer designs claim better throughput and higher sampling, does that mean they are musical, don't think so, I like SACD, have heard SONY's top end SACD player and own Yamaha's top end SACD player currently, musically, neither of them come close to the CDX-10000. Sound and musical has never been about specs or materials used, its always been about the implementation by the designers, sometimes they got it just right. Today's so-called engineers have deviated from it, maybe due to market pressures, some speakers claim they can hit the 70KHz upper range, now what it has to do with an actual musical instrument is beyond my comprehension, mind you, I can hear up to 26KHz tested but again, this is just pointless persuasion, also speaker design has really hit the bottom, case in point, the dipole $10000 Jamo reference D 909, they look so impressive as compared to the boom box look of my NS-1000, specially the M with the metal grills, when they first played it attached to a Parasound amp and ARCAM Diva CD192 player, it took me back, as you know NS-1000 are poor imagers so when you listen to a speaker with good imaging, one is always impressed, two hours down the line, I only have one word for these speakers, SYRUPY, instead if accuracy, it was sugar coating everything including the brass instruments where it was highly evident.

 

[Unda Maris]

Guys, you are all talking, talking and talking and nobody of you Yamaha lovers is bidding !!!

Should a SONY fan like me buy them and give you a report how they sound ?:scratch2:

 

[restorer-john]

I think I should buy them and do a clock mod to the cd player, a cap upgrade to the amp and maybe put a esoteric power cord on the preamp. Not.

 

[Elroy]

Guys, you are all talking, talking and talking and nobody of you Yamaha lovers is bidding !!!

Should a SONY fan like me buy them and give you a report how they sound ?:scratch2:

I am starting to wonder if he set his opening bid a tad high:scratch2:
I think there are some folks out there with deeper pockets than mine just biding their time. Simply outta my league though.

 

[Yamaha1]

Guys, you are all talking, talking and talking and nobody of you Yamaha lovers is bidding !!!

Should a SONY fan like me buy them and give you a report how they sound ?:scratch2:

Please, by all means, would be nice if you can.