Onkyo TX RZ50 and audio (lip) sync

[rschweitzer]

Recently upgraded my home theater receiver to a Onkyo TX RZ50. This receiver is really excellent. But, I am running into a audio sync issue. Video does not line up with the audio (lip sync). This can occur on any input.

With a souce such as the cable box, the audio is ahead of the video by roughly 30 ms. The receiver has a auto lip sync function and that seems to do nothing on or off. It also has a manual A/V sync. It is adjustable from -100ms to +500ms. From 0 to any negative value, it does nothing. Going the other way, 0 to any positive value, that has an effect. However, in the case of the cable box, the audio is ahead. So, I need to bring it back.

If I plug the cable box directly into the TV, bypassing the receiver, there is no lip sync issue.

I am using HDMI and I have tested it with audio as optical and HDMI as video. That has no effect switching between HDMI vs optical audio.

Onkyo support has been contacted and they don't know.

Has anyone experienced this issue?

 

[swechsler]

I'm surprised the negative settings on the sync control don't work. Seems as if that would be a problem with the receiver.

Regarding the auto lip sync, I'm not an expert, but does it maybe need CEC to be enabled for it to work?

At any rate, I'm assuming this is a new receiver, and if it happens with any input and not when the receiver is out of the circuit, it's obviously a fault with the receiver. The receiver should automatically keep the audio and video in sync, and the lip sync adjustment should only be needed when a particular component is out of sync. I've owned Onkyo AVRs before and haven't experienced this problem.

I'd seriously consider either requesting a replacement unit, or even returning it (if it's not too late) and going with a different model/brand entirely.

 

[orsen]

is there a lip sync function on the tv you can try ?

 

[rschweitzer]

I'm surprised the negative settings on the sync control don't work. Seems as if that would be a problem with the receiver.

Regarding the auto lip sync, I'm not an expert, but does it maybe need CEC to be enabled for it to work?

At any rate, I'm assuming this is a new receiver, and if it happens with any input and not when the receiver is out of the circuit, it's obviously a fault with the receiver. The receiver should automatically keep the audio and video in sync, and the lip sync adjustment should only be needed when a particular component is out of sync. I've owned Onkyo AVRs before and haven't experienced this problem.

I'd seriously consider either requesting a replacement unit, or even returning it (if it's not too late) and going with a different model/brand entirely.

Thanks for the reply.

I reduced this down to cable box only. It must be incompatible with the receiver. No other source gives me a sync Issue. So, I will replace it tomorrow.

However, regardless of the source, I still cannot use negative the receivers negative A/V sync. That function will only add delay. Not delete it.

As for returning it. Nope. It is under warranty though. Since everything else works, preference is to fix it. Bet it is a firmware update.

TV is a 2013 plasma, 1080p. Works well, but it is time to update it. No sync on that TV.

I will keep pushing Onkyo. I asked them to test subtracting delay on any input source they have.

***Update***
Swapped the cable box and as expected that did nothing.

Tested the delay and proved it to be the receiver by connecting the optical audio out of the cable box to the receiver and HDMI of the cable box to the TV. With both volumes up, I can hear the delay. The TV is correct. The receiver is ahead of the video. Again, the A/V sync on the receiver has no effect using a negative value. I can increase the delay, but that makes it worse.

I would not recommend purchasing an RZ50 until this issue is resolved.

 

[CdeWilde]

Hello rschweitzer,

I do have the same problem.

After my purchase the RZ50 i kept my RZ720.
I set up the device with Dirac and started watching movies/series. I noticed that the sound was much more audible than my previous reciever the RZ720.
However I noticed that the RZ50 had a delay in sound,. The sound lagged behind the picture. This was the thought because I am sensitive to it.

Then went searching to see if more people suffered from this. This turned out to be the case. I came across this forum where exactly my findings are also reflected.

What I tested to rule it out is the following:
Step.1
RZ720 in ALL STEREO
RZ50 in ALL STEREO
Netflix series turned on.
Front speaker left on RZ720
Front speaker right on RZ50.
Both on -+ 0 A/V ms . I noticed delay in sound when standing in the middle.


Step 2.
Slowly raised/delay sound + RZ720 until sound was in sync. This was at +30ms. Now sound is in sync with picture with RZ50 / RZ720.
Which means the RZ50 already has a delay of +30ms at position 0 which cannot be sped up.

Do you guys possibly know where I can send my findings to Onkyo so it can be investigated and acted upon ?

ps. HDMI or OPTICAL makes no difference by the way with ARC.
Same transfer speed. This would mean that the conversion of sound already has a delay of 30ms... this should of course not be acceptable.

 

[rschweitzer]

I spent countless hours on the phone with Onkyo support and they offered no help whatsoever. They insisted it was not an issue. I told them the menu to sync audio does nothing going negative. I asked the tech to try it. He couldn't as they weren't set up for that. We ended up at a stalemate.

The worst offender is my cable box. All other sources, like a Blu Ray player or the Roku are pretty close to accurate. The cable box audio is 25 to 35 ms ahead of the video when the receiver parameter is set to 0. Changing the parameter to any negative value is useless. That simply does not work. Audio change is possible going positive, which makes the sync delay worse. I tried HDMI video and optical audio out of the cable box, but no difference.

My previous Onkyo receiver, TX-797, over 20 years old was dying. But the audio sync worked perfectly.

I recommend you try calling Onkyo support and see what they say. Force them to try setting a negative value and get thier reaction when it doesn't work.

If you get somewhere and Onkyo decides on a firmware update, please post your results.

 

[bazmeg]

I'm dealing with the same problem with my TX-SR393.
I can confirm the negative value sync does not work as you described. Audio can be delayed, but setting below zero does nothing. The slider goes down to -100ms but makes no difference from 0ms.

UPDATE: Just made a call to Onkyo USA (took me 10 mins to dial the prefix correctly) and they kind-of confirmed the negative delay can be set ONLY if the TV supports that thing, meaning the TV has to ADD delay the video. In other words the receiver does nothing to the video signal as is, it can only delay audio AND tell the TV to delay video if necessary. Hoping the TV understands the command and has Lip Sync support. Which most TVs don't obviously.

So bottom line, get a new TV with manual Lip Sync adjustment for movies and passthrough. And for gaming, set PCM multichannel + low latency mode on the TV.

 

[CdeWilde]

I'm dealing with the same problem with my TX-SR393.
I can confirm the negative value sync does not work as you described. Audio can be delayed, but setting below zero does nothing. The slider goes down to -100ms but makes no difference from 0ms.

UPDATE: Just made a call to Onkyo USA (took me 10 mins to dial the prefix correctly) and they kind-of confirmed the negative delay can be set ONLY if the TV supports that thing, meaning the TV has to ADD delay the video. In other words the receiver does nothing to the video signal as is, it can only delay audio AND tell the TV to delay video if necessary. Hoping the TV understands the command and has Lip Sync support. Which most TVs don't obviously.

So bottom line, get a new TV with manual Lip Sync adjustment for movies and passthrough. And for gaming, set PCM multichannel + low latency mode on the TV.

I have got an Sony 77A80J, looks to me this is an advanced OLED tv. I am writing also with Sony about this issue. Could be an handshake issue "delay"?

I use the sony apps to watch tv. There is a difference every time we watch tv with sound from Onkyo. Than Netflix is need to be set on +25ms - the other moment +100ms or in worst case +150ms.
We watch the ROOKIE. So every episode on a different day has not the same delay. Often +25ms is the right one.
Another app is needed to be set on +150ms because the sound is to fast. It is very different per app but needs to adjust automatically and this does not work. I think the app is set -150ms from the app itself. But in this case Onkyo needs to automatically correct this, unfortunately it does not.

Sound from the Sony tv has a little bit lipsync but not as much as the Onkyo.

Update:
Onkyo Germany tells me that the Onkyo RZ50 needs to be taken in for further investigation because this should not happen.
Below the response from Germany.

"Dear Mr.
The sync problem is not within the manufacturer`s limits of function, i would suggest, you contact your dealer for warranty claims, he can send in the device for a firm check up and repair. best regards Service Team Frank Möller"

 

[bazmeg]

I have got an Sony 77A80J, looks to me this is an advanced OLED tv. I am writing also with Sony about this issue. Could be an handshake issue "delay"?

I use the sony apps to watch tv. There is a difference every time we watch tv with sound from Onkyo. Than Netflix is need to be set on +25ms - the other moment +100ms or in worst case +150ms.
We watch the ROOKIE. So every episode on a different day has not the same delay. Often +25ms is the right one.
Another app is needed to be set on +150ms because the sound is to fast. It is very different per app but needs to adjust automatically and this does not work. I think the app is set -150ms from the app itself. But in this case Onkyo needs to automatically correct this, unfortunately it does not.

Sound from the Sony tv has a little bit lipsync but not as much as the Onkyo.

Update:
Onkyo Germany tells me that the Onkyo RZ50 needs to be taken in for further investigation because this should not happen.
Below the response from Germany.

"Dear Mr.
The sync problem is not within the manufacturer`s limits of function, i would suggest, you contact your dealer for warranty claims, he can send in the device for a firm check up and repair. best regards Service Team Frank Möller"

Onkyo has a support team in Germany? Then why the hell they gave me a US phone number to call?

I'm a but confused by what you written. In your first post you described "The sound lagged behind the picture" and then you "Slowly raised/delay sound + RZ720 until sound was in sync. This was at +30ms. Now sound is in sync with picture with RZ50 / RZ720."

If sound lags behind picture you can't fix it by further delaying the sound via the AVR. Or I'm getting it wrong as it doesn't make much sense.

 

[CdeWilde]

Onkyo has a support team in Germany? Then why the hell they gave me a US phone number to call?

I'm a but confused by what you written. In your first post you described "The sound lagged behind the picture" and then you "Slowly raised/delay sound + RZ720 until sound was in sync. This was at +30ms. Now sound is in sync with picture with RZ50 / RZ720."

If sound lags behind picture you can't fix it by further delaying the sound via the AVR. Or I'm getting it wrong as it doesn't make much sense.

When i send Onkyo an email this was the mail response.

"Dear Customer,

This is an automatically generated email please do not reply.

Thank you for reaching out to Premium Audio Company Europe.

Back in September 2021, Premium Audio Company, through its joint venture with Sharp, acquired the Onkyo and Integra brands, and, through VOXX, it established a licensing and distribution agreement with Pioneer Corporation.

On May 13, 2022, Onkyo Home Entertainment filed for bankruptcy protection in Osaka, Japan.
Premium Audio Company now owns the brands Onkyo and Integra including all intellectual property, and took responsibility for product development, engineering, sales, marketing and distribution of Onkyo’s home entertainment business. Premium Audio Company and Sharp only manufacture A/V receivers, stereo receivers and amplifiers under the Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer brands.


If you are an end user located within the EMEA area (Europe, Middle East, Africa), please follow the instructions below to solve your issue:

ONKYO – for A/V receivers, stereo receivers, amplifiers, CD-Players
• For a product under warranty, please contact your local dealer from whom you purchased the product or your local service center: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For a product out of warranty, please check our website to find an authorized service center: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For a technical question on your AVR, please contact S+S (in German or English only) www.sisc.de
• For firmware updates & manuals for A/V receivers, stereo receivers, amplifiers, CD-Players, please visit our website: https://www.intl.onkyo.com/support/firmware/

• For any other products (speakers, home cinema…): please contact a local service station

PIONEER – for A/V receivers, stereo receivers, amplifiers, CD-Players
• For a product under warranty please contact your local dealer from whom you purchased the product or your local service center: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For a product out of warranty, please check our website to find an authorized service center: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For a technical question on your AVR, please contact S+S (in German or English only) www.sisc.de
• For firmware updates & manuals (A/V receivers, stereo receivers, amplifiers, CD-Players), please visit our website: https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/downloads/

• For any other products (headphones, speakers, micro-hifi systems , home cinema systems) : please contact a local service station

• For Pioneer Car audio: https://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur/support/contactform
• For Pionreer DJ: https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000756532
• For Pioneer Cycle: https://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur/support/contactform
• For rekordbox: https://rekordbox.com/en/support/contact/

INTEGRA - A/V receivers
• For a product under warranty, please contact your local dealer/integrator/installer from whom you purchased the product or your local service center: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For a product out of warranty, please check our website to find an authorized service station: https://emea.onkyo-av.com/service-centers
• For firmware updates & manuals (A/V receivers, stereo receivers, amplifiers, CD-Players): https://integrahometheater.com/
• For a technical question on your AVR, please contact S+S (in German or English only) www.sisc.de

If you are an end user NOT located within the EMEA area (Europe, Middle East, Africa), please contact:

ONKYO: https://www.onkyousa.com/home/
PIONEER: https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/contact-support/
INTEGRA: https://integrahometheater.com/contact-us/


If you are an Amazon customer, please reach the Amazon customer service (contact indicated in your invoice).

If you are a retailer, please reach the official distributor in your country.



We thank you for your email and your trust in our premium brands.

Best regards
The Premium Audio Company Team"


About the lag response.

Its correct that the RZ720 has a faster response. When syncing the RZ50 and RZ720 the RZ50 is 30ms slower in sound. Maybe because of my native language i did not write it exactly right.

When ONLY using the RZ50 it random lipsync, i have to adjust manually. So therefore the RZ50 is going to a servicepoint.

In another app, the audio is slower en video is faster. It completely random at this point where i need to take the RZ50 to a service point.