Genov
Super Member
I understand. Things got pretty political along the way (I’m guilty too). I don’t like to talk politics on forums like this, but can be easily pulled into that.
Open Baffle Epiphany!
- Thread starter cptnCanada
- Start date
I understand. Things got pretty political along the way (I’m guilty too). I don’t like to talk politics on forums like this, but can be easily pulled into that.
z-adamson
Addicted Member
So, looks like you have favored the Lii F-15 with the eminence alpha15 woofers rather than using the F-15 on it's own.
In hindsight, since the F-15 can't stand on it's own due to a lack of bass output, would it have been better to use a smaller Lii driver with the alpha15? Such as F-8, F-10, F12? The whole point to the F-15 is that it does not need a separate bass driver. The point of the smaller F drivers is that they are made to be used with a dedicated bass driver. Since you use a dedicated bass driver with the F-15, it seems that a smaller driver could have been used with the same if not better results. What are your thoughts on this?
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
I've tried the following combinations: F-15s/Alphas, Lowthers/Alphas, Lowthers/F-15s, and the solo F-15s but the liveliest and fullest sound came with all three drivers together. The F-15s can stand on their own and I might be satisfied with them if I hadn't added the Alphas which I already had on hand. The Alphas augment them with some nice bass weight. What I mean by bass weight is it doesn't play lower rather there's just more of it.
I think any of those smaller Lii audio full range drivers paired with Alphas would be a good choice. I've not heard the W-15 which Geno uses but they might be a step up from the Alphas. They're not cheap but a single might be enough. If anyone lives close by I've got more OB bass woofers than I can possibly use. Eight extras in all and four are Alphas.
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z-adamson
Addicted Member
So in your lowther / f15 / alpha15 arrangement, is it your opinion that the f15 is a better choice than a smaller lii audio f-series full range driver?
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
The F-15 sounds great by itself while the smaller full range drivers would need bass support. Here's what an expert says about the F-15 and several other Lii Audio drivers.
http://glowinthedarkaudio.com/speakers.html
z-adamson
Addicted Member
My hypothesis is that a smaller driver would work better when used with bass assist as it will beam less….the downside being less output at lower frequencies but with bass assist that is a non-issue. A larger driver like f15 and f18 would be better without bass assist as they have adequate output in the lower frequencies, downside being that they may beam at higher frequencies. Am I on the right track here?
As I currently see it, it makes little sense to use an f15 with bass assist. Maybe I am missing something. The f15 looks to be best suited to a one voice coil per side of a two-channel audio system for those that want the maximum in the coherency department.
z-adamson
Addicted Member
I guess that I am blessed with not
having that problem, but I hope that Z-adamson can find a workable solution
This is the solution I came up with.
Separate baffles. I used the pre-existing cutout for driver placement. Not only did this isolate the drivers mechanically, it aligned the voice coils, which I consider a plus.
z-adamson
Addicted Member
This mechanically decouples the drivers, mechanically lines up the voice coils and gives me the ability to utilize the bass drivers with other full range drivers since they slide out from a under the other baffles they are currently working with, with ease. I like it! Major improvement from before.
Genov
Super Member
Z, can you take photos of the full front and full back? It’s hard for me to picture the layout. Thanks!
z-adamson
Addicted Member
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
With the NB's I did something somewhat similar by decoupling the bass woofers from the full range drivers.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Z, if these sound really good to you and if you are still in love after 6 months then I wouldn't change a thing. My experience with the big alnico wide band drivers has been game changing. They have such a sweet tone and a great match with flea watt tube amps. After all, that's what they were originally voiced for. I've enjoyed my Zenith alnico OB's now for over a dozen years. When I play them I ask myself "do the F-15 baffles sound better" and often I struggle with the answer. The one that I'm listening to at the time is usually the one I favor. As another member says, "different is easy, better is a lot more difficult".
I don't think Lii Audio makes alnico drivers but they should. I am anxious to hear Geno's impression with the Betsy alnico's over the W-15's. I think I would covet that combination. Heck I loved the original Betsy's but sold them to a friend during a weak moment.
When folks post their OB's I hope they always include their impressions.
Genov
Super Member
I am pretty excited about getting the Betsy's back in the line up again, Poultry. It has been several years since I've heard them. It may be a little while, though, until I can get the other top baffles made.
The alnico's are a pretty significant step up in SQ from the regular Betsy's.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
The original Betsy's are in the back corner of the last picture I posted. The combination of the Betsy/Alpha sounded much better than the Zu's which I ended up selling.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Not sure but I would think the lack of a surround limits excursion. It's true that those big wide banders from the 50's/60's will not take much power. In consoles they were driven by flea watt tube amps and my 1957 Zenith alnico's are so efficient it's hard to see any movement from the cone. A ribbed cone is another common characteristic.
Here is a bit for those that enjoy OB....
Set up a full quad system at CarverFest this year.
My short line source OB's. TB 1808 stacks for mains and 10" Goldwood dual VC drivers for bass. Sublime Acoustic crossover at 80hz between mains and bass. Mains run on Carver Crimson 275's and bass from older Carver TFM-25.
Rears much the same.
Space a little tight but ok. Source from Oppo into a Sony ES series analog multi-channel pre which feeds the crossovers. No eq, no manipulation, just straight analog after it comes out of the Oppo and no high level crossover elements.
Comments from people had the system and the source material well received. Was told it was the system to see and hear here this year. Nice to hear when such nice other systems are present. What really made it was the real deal quad music, mostly from multi-channel SACD. The big hit.....Carpenters! Didn't expect that. Also got to debut some of the Immersion set of Pink Floyd and the quad versions from that!
People are very taken with the super quality of the quad and the presentation of OB. Can't tell you how many commented on the clarity of the OB. But us in the know......know!
EV3
Set up a full quad system at CarverFest this year.
My short line source OB's. TB 1808 stacks for mains and 10" Goldwood dual VC drivers for bass. Sublime Acoustic crossover at 80hz between mains and bass. Mains run on Carver Crimson 275's and bass from older Carver TFM-25.
Rears much the same.
Space a little tight but ok. Source from Oppo into a Sony ES series analog multi-channel pre which feeds the crossovers. No eq, no manipulation, just straight analog after it comes out of the Oppo and no high level crossover elements.
Comments from people had the system and the source material well received. Was told it was the system to see and hear here this year. Nice to hear when such nice other systems are present. What really made it was the real deal quad music, mostly from multi-channel SACD. The big hit.....Carpenters! Didn't expect that. Also got to debut some of the Immersion set of Pink Floyd and the quad versions from that!
People are very taken with the super quality of the quad and the presentation of OB. Can't tell you how many commented on the clarity of the OB. But us in the know......know!
EV3