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Open Baffle Epiphany!

onwardjames said:
Yes, please elaborate. I can spring for something like that.

And, since one has to add a tweeter, is this where bi-amping comes in? Can't see a passive crossover with OB, would appear to defeat the whole sound approach. I'm green on this, so bear with me.

I have two Epi tweets that I'm currently not using. I wonder if these and some of the Eminence you mentioned would play well together.
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http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=442092

You can build these without the H-frame subs (but you will need some sort of subwoofer to cover the low end) and just stick a cap before the tweeter and not need bi-amplification as the Beta can run full range. I tried it first that way but ultimately went to a dedicated amp on the tweeter and dedicated amp on the Beta (and plate amps on the H-frames) with an Ashly active crossover so I could have adjustable parameters for all the drivers. You can tailor where you want the tweeter to come in with different cap values, but you won't have control over it's output and unless your tweeter's sensitivity is right there with the Beta's it's critical to have that adjustment. Anything that gives you on-the-fly level adjustment here makes matching the output of two drivers with different sensitivity a snap.

But to just get a taste of OB without the fine tuning I say get a pair of the Betas, use those tweeters you have with a cap to tailor where they come in (I had BG Neo 3s coming in around 3.5K) and let her rip. If you like where it's going you can pursue a proper build. And I HIGHLY...let me say that again....HIGHLY recommend building the H-frame subwoofers. You will never look at a box subwoofer the same again. It will be every bit the revelation the discovery of OB is.

- Michael
 
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onwardjames said:
Yes, please elaborate. I can spring for something like that.

And, since one has to add a tweeter, is this where bi-amping comes in? Can't see a passive crossover with OB, would appear to defeat the whole sound approach. I'm green on this, so bear with me.

I have two Epi tweets that I'm currently not using. I wonder if these and some of the Eminence you mentioned would play well together.
Click to expand...

The approach you'd be defeating is wide-range/full-range from a single driver and/or point-source... a priori I would opine that there's no philosophical reason to exclude passive XOs from OB loudspeakers.

From my (admittedly biased) perspective, adding a "helper tweeter" crossed in first order on the tweeter (none on the "woofer"/FR driver) and very high (e.g., 10,000 Hz nominal crossover frequency) will add some sparkle and not really impact much else.
 
I'm not a fan of the complexity and negative impact of passive crossovers in the signal path of multi-driver open baffle speakers.

I use an inexpensive active crossover which allow use of one amp for the HF and one amp for the LF but the huge advantage comes from the fact that the signal is altered before it is amplified rather than after. I've tried passives vs actives and the difference is significant. With all the available information on this topic it's not debatable which is better.

ultumax, PM me.
 
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I avoided the whole crossover issue with the University drivers.
The came with a pot for mid to high adjustment and have a single cap for the low to mid crossover.

If I had to design my own crossover I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have tried open baffles.
And if I did I'd be messing with the crossover points forever.
And don't even mention notch filters.

Art
 
Does anyone know of a thread where older "sleeper" speakers make great open baffle applications?

Anything in particular I should search for at the consignment shops, etc?

You guys have me chomping at the bit to hear this.

I'm past hearing stacked advents, high watt party rigs, etc. My ears are nearly used up, and low wattage setups are what I'm feeling these days.

Those Epi tweeters never bother my ears, which is why I asked on those.

Looking forward to OB discoveries.
 
sempai said:
Even listening to opera now.

It all just sounds so good.
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LOL, that sounds just like me. Since my open baffle speakers, my musical interests have expanded greatly. Yes, even to opera...

I especially like pipe organ music on mine, it sounds like I am there...
 
My "open baffles" have some of the cleanest bass I have ever heard. They are Silver Iris 15" coaxial drivers mounted in 6 cu/ft Barzilay enclosures with the backs wide open and the front baffle has two large horn cutouts and a large port, which I left all open.

They are more of a C frame, I guess, but I get great sounding bass. I would guess they play down near the cutoff freq of the woofer (~40 hz). I have absolutely no interest in measuring the output, my ears are happy.
 
NeonDriver said:
My "open baffles" have some of the cleanest bass I have ever heard. They are Silver Iris 15" coaxial drivers mounted in 6 cu/ft Barzilay enclosures with the backs wide open and the front baffle has two large horn cutouts and a large port, which I left all open.

They are more of a C frame, I guess, but I get great sounding bass. I would guess they play down near the cutoff freq of the woofer (~40 hz). I have absolutely no interest in measuring the output, my ears are happy.
Click to expand...

Nice. Pics?
 
onwardjames,

as poultry was saying, the older consoles can yield nice full rangers. if the drivers were in a cabinet without a back or at least not dampened with fiberglass/fill they could work. think pre-acoustic suspension drivers.
 
Open Baffle V.0.2b

More time today to do some experimenting. Cardboard Version 0.2 Beta built! I borrowed some Fender labelled Eminence 12" speakers from my Fender Blues Deville guitar amp. I don't know much about these speakers aside from they are the same style that seems to work well in OB..rigid surround, high efficiency, 8 ohms.

Next step, take the plate amp out of the Paradigm sub so I can use it to run the 12" woofs. They will be running in parallel from the plate amp, and therefore will be mono. Cutoff at 150HZ, and the full range Fosters are running wide open from my receiver.

I have some bigger cardboard baffles now to house both speakers. VERY crude design and I'm sure a fart would blow them over, but this is simply for proof of concept...So hear we go!!

Results:

I am very surprised what is coming out of the 12" speakers. When they were outside the baffles and hooked up there was not an ounce of bass coming out of them, and stick them on a flimsy piece of cardboard, holey smokes, we have bass! And very nice bass! Bass guitar sounds like its coming out of my Fender amp, not anything what I am used to from stereo speakers I have experienced my whole life. I'm simply amazed at the quality! SPL wise, they do start to slowly roll off around 75HZ, but for ridiculous mad scientist cardboard I am blown away! I can just imagine what they would sound like in rigid baffles.

I can't believe that we have been sold on complex Acoustic Suspension and ported speakers our whole life when the simplest design, a board and drivers, sounds so much better. I can't wait to dive right in and build permanent OB speakers, as far as I am concerned, concept is proven :music:

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Pics, as requested:


Front: With KR-5200 and the obligatory cat...

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Back: I think the offset of the driver and the multiple holes provide a nice effect. The bass dipole cancellation is spread out over a wider band. The sandbags were installed to dampen the relatively thin enclosure. I also made a little pillow under the crossover out of some quilt padding.

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cptnCanada said:
More time today to do some experimenting. Cardboard Version 0.2 Beta built!
Click to expand...

Very nice work. Experimenting with cardboard baffles is the preferred method for OB R&D. :thmbsp:

I'm glad you are liking the OB bass, it is very natural sounding. :music: It was a great idea to use some bass guitar drivers, they are often run fairly open.
 
neon,

those look awesome! gotta love the barzilay cabs.

hawthornes are supposed to be excellent FR drivers. haven't heard them myself.

guess i could try something like that. i have some wharfie w70 cabs left over from my recent cabinet frankenstein adventure.
 
cptnCanada said:
More time today to do some experimenting. Cardboard Version 0.2 Beta built! I borrowed some Fender labelled Eminence 12" speakers from my Fender Blues Deville guitar amp. I don't know much about these speakers aside from they are the same style that seems to work well in OB..rigid surround, high efficiency, 8 ohms.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Zu use Eminece drivers?
Haven't heard any Zu models myself, but I understand they sound great.

You're keeping good company.

Art
 
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