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Open Baffle Epiphany!

Poultrygeist said:
Can't see them very well in the youtube video but here's a better picture.

greenvalve-no-baffle-speakers.png
Click to expand...

I can DEFINITELY see those!! Holy shyte. I guess "NB" means "No baffle." Quite minimal in terms of cabinets. Wait... what cabinets? LOL.

Poultrygeist... thanks for the info and the pics. About the max size I can accommodate is 8". I will try a simple OB design for an 8" driver... likely something close to the Pioneer BOFU driver or Betsy.

I've got a 12" Polk sub (PSW505) that can handle the bass up to about 170 Hz... that should be enough to overlap the full range (or near full range) driver.
 
hnash53, thanks for providing that link to http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0709/open_baffle.htm Lot of good info there:thumbsup:
I think I'm going to try the OP's route and build some out of cardboard.
From there I can try trimming one of the baffles down bit by bit until I hear a difference in the bass response between the two and use that as a guide for the final build.
Now to find some heavy duty cardboard and more importantly a free weekend.
 
Here's a very crude OB setup I just put together yesterday.
IMG_20170128_153910305.jpg IMG_20170128_153939039.jpg IMG_20170128_153948447.jpg IMG_20170128_190507873.jpg
While my listening space is not ideal for OB, I still like what I am hearing. I certainly experienced the airy, open sound of OB, and am excited to do this project.

The drivers are the Goldwood FRs here: http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-8003-8-8-full-range-driver-w-whizzer--290-379

This is just a test... but it passed! So... I will be building some similar (but cosmetically much nicer looking/stable) baffles out of a different wood, perhaps a bit more narrow. You see I have a 12 inch sub there, so the low end issues with OB won't be an issue here.

I won't be adding any tweeters/xovers. I am considering other drivers too for this project, such as:

Electro Voice Wolverine LS8
Visaton BG20
Audio Nirvana Classic 8
GRS BOFU clone

Eight inch is about the largest I can go given my space.

Any thoughts on those choices welcome. The ANs are by far the most spendy... $228/pair versus <$80/pair or less.

I have pretty profound high frequency hearing loss partially compensated by hearing aids in both ears. Many "wide/extended range" drivers sound good to me. I doubt that I can hear much over 10-13KHz. This is just FYI for those reading this.

Thanks for your thoughts/suggestions.
 
U-frame/H-frame OB subs and Passive inline crossovers
Found these while doing a search for 'passive inline crossover' - http://www.parts-express.com/brand/harrison-labs/265
Are these any good? I was wondering if anyone has used them or other passive inline crossovers for a bi-amp setup with OB speakers.
Also, what is a typical crossover point for OB U or H frame subs?
 
hnash53 said:
Here's a very crude OB setup I just put together yesterday.
Click to expand...

That looks like a fine start:thumbsup: Do you notice much of a difference between the speaker on the floor and the one off?

That reminds me, I have a bunch of heavy particleboard 2'x2' panels I grabbed from work that might make for a great OB trial speaker.
Gotta shovel snow first though, dang winter weather is back.
 
valvenator said:
That looks like a fine start:thumbsup: Do you notice much of a difference between the speaker on the floor and the one off?

That reminds me, I have a bunch of heavy particleboard 2'x2' panels I grabbed from work that might make for a great OB trial speaker.
Gotta shovel snow first though, dang winter weather is back.
Click to expand...

This morning, I put the one OB speaker that was on the floor up on a speaker stand so that the whizzer cone is at about ear level. Seems to have made an improved difference vs. having it on the floor. But it's also possible to design the OB with an angled back so that the OB on the floor will point the driver at the seated position, ear height.

Those 2'x2' particle board pieces should make for a good rough OB project to see/hear how you like it.

The Oregon coast vs. Upstate NY... you have my sympathies. I lived in cold country (MT, WY, ND) for many years. No desire to live in cold country again... except for cross country skiing:).
 
valvenator said:
U-frame/H-frame OB subs and Passive inline crossovers
Found these while doing a search for 'passive inline crossover' - http://www.parts-express.com/brand/harrison-labs/265
Are these any good? I was wondering if anyone has used them or other passive inline crossovers for a bi-amp setup with OB speakers.
Also, what is a typical crossover point for OB U or H frame subs?
Click to expand...

Those look very interesting. I was trying to tame a bad-acting woofer recently that shouted out at between 3-4KHz so bad it hurt my ears. These might help... but don't know for sure. Anyone else know about these things?
 
hnash53 said:
This morning, I put the one OB speaker that was on the floor up on a speaker stand so that the whizzer cone is at about ear level. Seems to have made an improved difference vs. having it on the floor.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that's good to know. I'm toying with the idea of using small OB's with a sub so the OB's would need to be off the floor

hnash53 said:
Those 2'x2' particle board pieces should make for a good rough OB project to see/hear how you like it.
Click to expand...
I've been playing guitar for over 40 years (not that it shows, LOL) and always preferred the full wide sound of open cabs so I'm sure I'll like the sound of OB's.
My first experience with "Open Baffle" was playing a 3 watt radio/cassette player through an open back guitar cab and being blown away by the full sound. Van Halen and Dio never sounded so good!

hnash53 said:
The Oregon coast vs. Upstate NY... you have my sympathies. I lived in cold country (MT, WY, ND) for many years. No desire to live in cold country again... except for cross country skiing:).
Click to expand...
Neither do I but this is where family is. Actually except for a storm in early Dec. that turned my 30 minute drive home into 3 hours it's been pretty decent this winter. I'm sure mother nature will make up for it.
Been 40 years since the big bad blizzard of '77. I can do fine without another one.
 
hnash53 said:
My OBs will also be small... about 16x11.

This guy has some small ones, too: http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2009/09/s11-ob-bookshelf-open-baffle-with-seas.html

Check out google images with "small open baffle speakers."
Click to expand...

Been there before and did that just now and it's amazing at the many new variations people have come up with.
Looks like unlike most designs this is one where you can bend the rules a bit and still have yourself a great sounding speaker.

Unless you go the No Baffle route I don't think it can get much smaller than this:
https://surfandsound.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/alpine-sps-517-open-baffle-speakers/
 
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valvenator said:
U-frame/H-frame OB subs and Passive inline crossovers
Found these while doing a search for 'passive inline crossover' - http://www.parts-express.com/brand/harrison-labs/265
Are these any good? I was wondering if anyone has used them or other passive inline crossovers for a bi-amp setup with OB speakers.
Also, what is a typical crossover point for OB U or H frame subs?
Click to expand...

The Harrison Labs Fmods are a good choice. Like an active crossover they change the frequency before the signal is amplified.
 
I have the real Pioneer BOFU's and the GRS clones but I'm not a fan of the latter. Other 8" FR drivers to consider to name a few are the Visaton B200, Wild Burro Audio Labs Betsy, Saba Green cones, Coral, Fostex, and Realistic. Some of the Radio Shack Realistic drivers are said to be made in Japan by Fostex.
 
The imitation BUFO's have been the poorest of all the 8" drivers I've played with. They sound like you're listening to drivers with the cones made of cardboard. Just not able to be enjoyable to spend time with. I'd skip on those...

Leaning back is often done to minimize the wood used and so on. But I've found I always preferred them to be closer to ear level and that they present a better sound stage that way. Not huge...not a deal breaker, but I like the image to feel just slightly elevated instead of like looking down from the balcony. Tilt helps keep you on axis for the highs but doesn't really change the perspective completely. An advantage to down low is that the floor bounce helps reinforce the lower freq's a little.

Know that the filter freq of a filter like those FMods's is dependent on the load being presented. So the listed freq may or may not be exactly what you get. A 10K SS amp input versus a listed at 100K (but actually higher) tube amp input impedance is going to vary what you get for the same listed value.

Choosing a driver is part of the fun but it also is the result you get to listen to. Playing with the econo drivers is a valuable way to start experimenting with OB but if you want to shorten the process and the expense then shoot as high as your comfortable with in drivers. You're buying the biggest part of the sonics with that selection. You don't have near as many variables standing in the way of the result as a typical multi-way driver speaker system. Clarity that results is the driver. Freq response of that driver is effected by the size and design of the baffle (or lack of), but the sound of the driver remains as a really big part of the end satisfaction.

EV3
 
Oh but what fun it is to try different full range drivers.

I don't expect to discover anything close to my Lowther DX3 but I still enjoy experimenting with different drivers which offer such a variety of sounds.

I use the same old H-frames I built years ago but the variety comes with what I place on top.
 
Listening to these Zenith 49CZ alnico drivers this morning and wow! Spent so much time with 4 and 8 inch drivers I forget how immersive the sound is with 12

inchers. Mr. "Glow in the Dark" is right on with his praise of these vintage drivers from the late 50's. Streamed some Paul Hardcastle jazz and the 49's just lit up and

bathed the room in sound. At low level they don't have Lowther detail or the jump factor but they are so non fatiguingly smooth and refined. I could listen all day and

since I'm off work I may just do that.

P1010030.jpg
 
Backside of the Zenith 49CZ over H-frame Alphas. I'm driving the Zeniths with a Volt+ TPA3116 and tube preamp. The Alphas are powered by a Yung SD300 plate amp.

P1010029.jpg
 
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