slimecity
Super Member
How do these - or other - choices compare to say, the Fostex Fe-206en?
That's the driver I've always used in my OBs and I haven't looked back - however it may be time to upgrade? I do LOVE my fostex's tho....
Open Baffle Epiphany!
- Thread starter cptnCanada
- Start date
How do these - or other - choices compare to say, the Fostex Fe-206en?
That's the driver I've always used in my OBs and I haven't looked back - however it may be time to upgrade? I do LOVE my fostex's tho....
hnash53
Super Member
If you are looking for a single driver project with a full range 10 incher, there's lots of vintage ones that are very reasonable to acquire. Names like Wolverine, Jensen, Heppner (and many, many more) yield lots of vintage 10" drivers that still perform very well... often with AlNiCo magnets.
That's one thing I'm liking about OB is that I can sample lots of different drivers... new and vintage... without spending lots of money. I'm surprised at the number of quality, good working... and good looking... vintage drivers still out there and available.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
While you see wide baffles that take up lots of room there are also small baffles that get good reviews like these.
http://www.caintuckaudio.com
While I've used expensive drivers from Lowther, Tang Band and Fostex in open baffles with great results I can't say that any of them have been more rewarding than the Zeniths. The Lowthers have an edge in detail and sound very lit up and in your face but I can't listen to them for extended periods like I can with the smoother Zeniths. The Zeniths have a wonderful sense of presence and refinement that I so covet. While I'll never part with the Lowthers they'll never be my daily drivers like the Zeniths have become. The DX3s are so costly and delicate I live in constant fear that I'll accidentally burn a voice coil or a little finger will pierce the cone which is as thin as a butterfly wing.
For a new project and to alleviate space in my crowded OB room I've thought about trying the DX3 Lowthers in MJK's ML TL design. But for the time being the vintage wide bander genre is pretty dang exciting.
http://www.caintuckaudio.com
While I've used expensive drivers from Lowther, Tang Band and Fostex in open baffles with great results I can't say that any of them have been more rewarding than the Zeniths. The Lowthers have an edge in detail and sound very lit up and in your face but I can't listen to them for extended periods like I can with the smoother Zeniths. The Zeniths have a wonderful sense of presence and refinement that I so covet. While I'll never part with the Lowthers they'll never be my daily drivers like the Zeniths have become. The DX3s are so costly and delicate I live in constant fear that I'll accidentally burn a voice coil or a little finger will pierce the cone which is as thin as a butterfly wing.
For a new project and to alleviate space in my crowded OB room I've thought about trying the DX3 Lowthers in MJK's ML TL design. But for the time being the vintage wide bander genre is pretty dang exciting.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
He's talking about a 10" woofer not a 10" full range driver
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Rarely do you find a speaker that's spec'ed for a box enclosure to also work well in OB. The reason some of these vintage wide band speakers work is because they were designed to be used in open back consoles.
hnash53
Super Member
Are you speaking of the JBLs I mentioned in the previous post?
OK...here is my reaction to the numbers...
The total Q being .84 is good for OB. I'm really surprised to see the number being that high.
The xmax being 2.5 goes the other way for me. Surprised it's that small. But then up higher is says max before damage is 6mm which is more like it.
The real stopper (for me) though is the fact it's only going to give you response to 100hz. That freq response chart at the bottom is pretty representative being for free field is going to be real. A lot of drivers should give you deeper response.
You'd probably find yourself pretty quickly adding something separately to go lower or replacing to get there. That's what I see....
EV3
"Supplementing the loudspeakers are the 9315HT high quality dual voltage transformer and the WB8 white metal ceiling baffle."
Seems these were made for placement in ceilings or walls in an infinite baffle configuration so they should work OK for OB's I would think, with a helper woofer or H-frame sub.
I have some of the 4" 8110's that I read somewhere were used in those big box arcade video games.
Except for a quick listen I haven't really tried them out yet and those only go down to 200Hz.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/8110h.pdf
Seems these were made for placement in ceilings or walls in an infinite baffle configuration so they should work OK for OB's I would think, with a helper woofer or H-frame sub.
I have some of the 4" 8110's that I read somewhere were used in those big box arcade video games.
Except for a quick listen I haven't really tried them out yet and those only go down to 200Hz.
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/8110h.pdf
hnash53
Super Member
More regarding the JBL topic... is this a vintage speaker? Or a current ceiling speaker offer?
This is about the third dead end I've been down looking at full range drivers... and they've all been speakers designed, as some of you said, for ceiling or perhaps wall applications... and maybe OB... and not so good in the bass output. I run a decent sub for the low end a lot of the time (though lately, I've just been running my OBs with just the loudness button ON. But my listening level is 65-80dB including the peaks most of the time, so the loudness does just what it should and enhances the bass and the speakers put out decent bass).
Thanks for the input re these. I think I'll pass for now.
This is about the third dead end I've been down looking at full range drivers... and they've all been speakers designed, as some of you said, for ceiling or perhaps wall applications... and maybe OB... and not so good in the bass output. I run a decent sub for the low end a lot of the time (though lately, I've just been running my OBs with just the loudness button ON. But my listening level is 65-80dB including the peaks most of the time, so the loudness does just what it should and enhances the bass and the speakers put out decent bass).
Thanks for the input re these. I think I'll pass for now.
Descartridge
Stereos been berry, berry good to me!
Whats your opinion re JBL in wall/ ceiling speakers in OB?
My answer would be is that ceiling speakers can be decent. They are made to be pretty wide range in freq coverage. But they aren't made usually for the greatest fidelity or SPL output level. So watch for xmax.
I tried a couple. The replacement BUFO was a disappointment for me. Too card board sounding. Better was the Goldwood 8003. As here...
https://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-8003-8-8-full-range-driver-w-whizzer--290-379
They do ok...though still not the last word in clarity. So don't expect them to convert any Lowther users.
I haven't heard all possible econo 8" duo-cone's there are, but I've heard a lot and they remain one of the better anyway.An interesting experiment with them was to run them in multiples. With several in attendance, we jumpered to run one, then two, then three and finally four on each side. It was a show stopper difference for all that heard the experiment. One sounds...ahh...ok. Two was a big step better. Then with three...they started sounding pretty good. By four, it's a small step better than three. So I wound up making a line of six of those GW's. It has an amazing amount of kick on the bottom end.
That punch ability is what many smaller drivers tend to lack in OB configurations. Those GW's really can get by on the bottom without support as in-room response with a line got well below 40hz. However, for me, they lacked the necessary sparkle on the top. Not bad, just a clear step short of what you get with the Tang Band's and others. However, if you augmented the top, I think you'd have a pretty amazing speaker for around $250-300 bucks (depending on HF augmenting price) for the pair. I've been able to say to many that those GW's in a line can really surprise for the money.
An option for HF augmenting, which I've purchased but haven't yet had time to try, are these little guys...
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-ptmini-6-planar-tweeter-6-ohm--275-083
I'm really interested to see if a line of those will economically be able to blend in up high. And with a line of them tend to match the radiation pattern I get from a "line" of the cone drivers.
EV3
Descartridge
Stereos been berry, berry good to me!
Thanks, EV
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
what EV says
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
When I cut the dust caps from my Beta 12LTA's it really smoothed out the highs while the phase plugs I added had much less of an effect. Maybe they already knew this back in the day.
Son-of-Vere
Super Member
I was wondering about these myself. I was thinking about putting a small mylar dust cap in place of the felt as a way to improve HF response. Once again I'm trying to resist the urge to muck these 49's up.
Poultrygeist
Lunatic Member
Don't do it.
I now have my Japanese Realistic super tweeters ( not to be confused with the inferior Korean/Chinese Radio Shack versions ) working again. Using a 1.0 uf cap on the positive terminal it's driven from the same amp as the Zeniths. I'm getting a nice shimmer from the top hats in the HF which is all I need from super tweeters. To my ears the Zeniths play so high tweeters are not a requirement. Maybe if you have bat ears you'd want more.
The Zeniths are some of the most complete and balanced wide band drivers I've experience. I'm enjoying them ever bit as much as the $1300 Lowthers.
Son-of-Vere
Super Member
Yea, PG, I think adding milligrams to these drivers could be a bad thing. I've experimented with some console 4 ohm tweeters that I added an additional 4 ohms to and xover'd to about 6k. I may incorporate those instead, but I'll still put a switch on them in case I want to hear that Zenith purity. I've got my flea amp up to snuff, and when I did that the bass response markedly improved. So now some types of listening require a little top end sizzle.