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Open Baffle Epiphany!

I saw the Betsy OBs a couple of weeks ago. I actually have a pair of Jensen Models 1s that use 8" full rangers with a whizzer cone. They need to be refoamed, but sounded pretty good when I tested them, might make good open baffles. I bought them to make 2 x 8" guitar cab.
 
Neff,

I had a pair of of the 1808's and liked them a lot. I ran them full range from a flea watt SET amp with nothing in the signal path. With the woofers I used a Yung SD100 plate amp or a pair of Dayton APA150's with crossover set around 80hz. If you want to do a passive filter on the woofers check out the link in #1668 post. I think the Fmods are available in 70hz low pass. A pair is all you need and unlike most passive filters these install between the source and the amp or between the preamp and the amp.

The Fmods offer the same advantage of active crossovers in that they change the frequency before the signal is amplified. This way you get a cleaner signal and a bit more power.

There are several ways to split that signal and simultaneously feed it to two separate amps which I'll cover if anyone is interested.

Bi-amping OB's is easy compared to conventional 2 way box speakers.

I am interested in your kind offer on signal splitting for Bi-amping.
THX!
 
I am interested in your kind offer on signal splitting for Bi-amping.
THX!

If you have a preamp with one pair of outputs you can split the signal with Y cables and feed two amps simultaneously. If you don't have a preamp you can use Y cables off the CD player or other source and feed both amps at the same time. If you power the woofers with a plate amp ( with line in and line out RCA's ) you can feed the source ( cd player etc. ) directly into the plate amp's line in RCA's and then feed the main amp from the plate amp's line out RCA's.
 
I'm not sure the Zeniths need tweeters as they play pretty high and clear on their own. Should I buy tweeters ( one of my Realistics is shot ) it would need to be in the 100+ db range. Godzilla likes the Eminence ASD 1001 for his Beta 12LTA build which are about the same efficiency as the Zeniths. It's easy to pad a hot tweeter down but you can't do the reverse.

What would be a good value of capacitor to start with to tone down my Fostex 208Sigmas?
thanks.
 
What would be a good value of capacitor to start with to tone down my Fostex 208Sigmas?
thanks.

I think what you'll want is some baffle step compensation. I'm on a temporary PC right now so I don't have the link handy, but a bit of googling should get you on track. A coil and resistor in parallel with each other, in series with the + terminal on the driver will attenuate the high frequencies. There's a lot of interesting theory behind it, but in practice, it reduces the shoutiness and brings up the bass. The online calculators give good results for box speakers, but I've found my OBs require a lot more resistance.
 

Excellent thread, Poultry; thanks for posting. I had to read it three times, but I think I get the gist. The keys are posts 7, 11, and 13. This confirms my intuition when I started fooling around with open baffles. I heard promise, but felt some need to boost the bass (or cut mids and highs, since I prefer not to use tone controls). Then I read about baffle diffraction loss, and wondered if it would apply equally to open baffles as to box speakers. I guessed it wouldn't be exactly the same, but it would rhyme, so BSC was a good starting point for experimentation. In post 7 of that DIY thread, the poster explains that with a box, you're dealing with the low frequencies disappearing behind the speaker, while in OB you're dealing with destructive interference between the front and back waves. In the first case you get 6db step loss below the baffle frequency, while in the second you get 6db/octave loss.

Yesterday I had that second part (the OB loss) mixed up in my head. I thought a 6db/octave low pass was what I needed. That just meant removing the resistor from my network and running only the coil. It sounded... "bad" would be too harsh, but clearly not right. It was just very dark. Now my mistake is clear to me: I don't need 6db/octave cut above the baffle frequency, I need 6 db/octave boost below the baffle frequency. A cookbook BSC will give me a 6db step at the baffle frequency, which will equalize the frequencies above the step with the first octave below, but the rest of the low end will still be too quiet.

Clearly I need a mini DSP, microphone, and software.

Here's the thing: my speakers sound great. I'm mostly interested in the microphone and software to check how well my tune-by-ear setup matches "ideal" response. I started with a cookbook BSC of 5mH and 6ohms (24" baffles and 6ohm DCR). I tried a few different coils and many resistance values. I came back to the 5mH coil and just kept adding resistance until the speakers weren't shouting at me anymore, but the OB magic was still there. I was at 18ohms for a few months. Then one day I asked myself, "What if I played these for Dad, what would he think?" He'd think the speakers were shouting at him. So now I'm at 20ohms. Since the inductance value is still defined by calculations using baffle width and DCR, I think I have a defensible rationale for my method. Oh yeah, Stephens Trusonic 120FR, no tweeter, no subs, just full-range single-driver magic. I've also tried some modern 8" full-rangers. Since they also happened to measure 6ohms, I kept the network the same and they also sounded good.
 
Here are the Betsy speakers temped in. Image appears at the level of the receiver and across the room.They are sounding better as they settle in. Subs in H frames are in the future. Yes they are worth the effort.Betsy small floor.jpg
 
That looks sharp Katalyst. I am going to make an attempt at OB with some Betsy speakers as well. Can't guarantee the will look as good as yours.
 
Thanks poultry and hawg. Boards are 3/4" oak plywood. Stands are left over Bookers whiskey boxes. The betsy are next to the econowaves. Sad thing is I hear the box now. The e-waves have better range. But the essence of the open baffles is missing. This forum is full of excellent ideas.
 
Here are the high end French PHY-HP full range drivers in OB's. The handcrafted PHY drivers look like jewelry. The best way to get bass from a single full range driver would be with the folding wing baffles pictured here..

maclem3553.jpg
 
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