Nice!!
Oppo BDP-105 or Schiit Audio Modi 2 Multibit? DAC comparisons.
- Thread starter HiFiJeff
- Start date
Delta77
Super Member
Sounds like one hell of a plan..
I've had my eyes on DECWARE as well..
Yeah , let me know how it works out for you...
runnin'
Super Member
I agree completely, in fact a big part of the audio hobby itself is comparing. It's what I've been doing the last couple of years with 15 different pairs of speakers I've bought (mostly used) and then sold off. And also what is a big part of audio, is disagreeing. It's HUGE in audio, and certainly in forums. And of course some folks have thin skin, and need to feel supported or reinforced. People are people, after all.
Other than that, I will simply say this: Schiit has become very successful for good reason. Of course there is better out there. But to make these DAC and headphone amp products completely in the USA is a feat all by itself. To make them among the most popular choices at given price points, on top of it, is a game changer.
In my opinion the consumer buys what he thinks fits his needs.
Where a product is manufactured, is only one of those criteria.
It also nice when manufactors actually listen to their customers criticisms and take that into account in their future designs. Instead of mainly thinking of it as a negative.
Where a product is manufactured, is only one of those criteria.
It also nice when manufactors actually listen to their customers criticisms and take that into account in their future designs. Instead of mainly thinking of it as a negative.
Huh? And you were shaming me for trying different DACs in another thread instead of accepting the Schiit dogma? Nice.
fredgarvin
Super Member
There are a number of Schiit products on my radar. They have built a huge customer base and much industry interest. As for Hifi forums, I thought this was pretty funny-
https://www.audiostream.com/content/werner-herzogs-documentary-about-hi-fi-forums
RGA
Super Member
Does anyone know if the OPPO players will output to both an external DAC and to surround sound receiver. Eventually I will be buying a rather substantial CD only transport but they are costly. So I am thinking of the 203/205 to be used as a transport for CD which I would like to connect to a 2 channel stereo via a Coax out. Then connect the HDMI out to my surround sound receiver for Blu-Ray/DVD/SACD etc.
This seems like it should be able to be done but just double checking.
As for DA Converter discussions this often comes down to the design topology and the quality of parts being used and the more you spend (often not always) the better the parts become and parts have a sound).
To be honest - I would probably just stick to the internal CD player approached of an OPPO and save your money. I don;t feel any of the upsampling oversampling designs will sound all that different and even when they do sound different they don't usually sound "better."
Just make sure when you buy a DAC that it's not hype - listen to it and make sure it is better not just different - anyone can make stuff that sounds different.
My favorite DACs come from Audio Note because in general their designs are different than anyone else. I recently purchased the Audio Note DAC 0.1X ($1450) and is their entry level DAC. You need an integrated or preamp with 100kohm input impedance or it will sound like ass. But if you do this IMO is the entry point for bothering to go with an external dac.
The reality is many DACs sound the same because - well - they all use the same over or up sampling designs and even the same chips. Especially at the low budget range. I would probably stick with a one box CD player like an OPPO and then go to a Non oversampling, no digital or analog filtering tube DAC like the AN DACs (there are a few other non oversampling DACs but I don't think any of them are filterless because it requires them using a transformer and becomes more expensive and they probably won't fetch the second hand value down the line). Most of the tube DACs out there use tubes as a buffer stage. Further the 0.1x has no-oversampling, no error correction, no jitter reduction, no noise-shaping, no re-clocking. I'm a bit of an AN fan but if you want to try something beyond what everyone else does give it a try even if you can't afford it.
My view of audio is to always listen to the most expensive and best equipment and then try to find the stuff in my price range that gets me as close as possible. SO if your budget is $500 listen to the $5000 DACs and then find a favorite and then find a $500 DAC that captures as close as possible to what that premium DAC does. The $1450 for the DAC 0.1X is my budget choice because the $8,000 AN DAC 3.1x is out of reach and the Dac 5 Fifth Force I heard and was gobsmacked by, at $123,500, is never going to happen!
This seems like it should be able to be done but just double checking.
As for DA Converter discussions this often comes down to the design topology and the quality of parts being used and the more you spend (often not always) the better the parts become and parts have a sound).
To be honest - I would probably just stick to the internal CD player approached of an OPPO and save your money. I don;t feel any of the upsampling oversampling designs will sound all that different and even when they do sound different they don't usually sound "better."
Just make sure when you buy a DAC that it's not hype - listen to it and make sure it is better not just different - anyone can make stuff that sounds different.
My favorite DACs come from Audio Note because in general their designs are different than anyone else. I recently purchased the Audio Note DAC 0.1X ($1450) and is their entry level DAC. You need an integrated or preamp with 100kohm input impedance or it will sound like ass. But if you do this IMO is the entry point for bothering to go with an external dac.
The reality is many DACs sound the same because - well - they all use the same over or up sampling designs and even the same chips. Especially at the low budget range. I would probably stick with a one box CD player like an OPPO and then go to a Non oversampling, no digital or analog filtering tube DAC like the AN DACs (there are a few other non oversampling DACs but I don't think any of them are filterless because it requires them using a transformer and becomes more expensive and they probably won't fetch the second hand value down the line). Most of the tube DACs out there use tubes as a buffer stage. Further the 0.1x has no-oversampling, no error correction, no jitter reduction, no noise-shaping, no re-clocking. I'm a bit of an AN fan but if you want to try something beyond what everyone else does give it a try even if you can't afford it.
My view of audio is to always listen to the most expensive and best equipment and then try to find the stuff in my price range that gets me as close as possible. SO if your budget is $500 listen to the $5000 DACs and then find a favorite and then find a $500 DAC that captures as close as possible to what that premium DAC does. The $1450 for the DAC 0.1X is my budget choice because the $8,000 AN DAC 3.1x is out of reach and the Dac 5 Fifth Force I heard and was gobsmacked by, at $123,500, is never going to happen!
PAGS
Super Member
Hi RGA, I believe the answer to your question is yes. The 205 also has two sets of dedicated stereo analog outputs (RCA and balanced). Here's a link to an image of the back of the 205: https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/images/UDP-205-back-hr.jpg.
RGA
Super Member
Yes the 203 would be better for my purpose and LOT cheaper. I auditioned the OPPO 205 and it is not for me for CD replay. But both should be good enough (perhaps better) as a transport and the 205 beats my Sony PS4 for bluray so presumably should the 203.
Well there are a few exceptions. The Project Dac Box S Fl defiantly sounds very different then most SS DAC's I heard. It does have a similar sound to the Maverick Audio D1 through the tube output, but is slightly more refined. The both have a analogue sound to them, and while not the absolute in detail (having Great Heils helps offset this) I find them way more easier to listen to four hours. They have a very full, sweet and smooth flow that is very musical.
The Project uses 4 old school non over sampling multibit chips with no filtering and direct coupled to the outputs. Very simple. The D1 uses a Crystal 4398 24 bit (8x over sampling I think), and a 192hz USB chip. I would put the Chord Mojo in this category as well, but not as analogue sounding..still some of that digital sheen. Although its a good balance between trying to be smooth and musical, and more detailed as well.
I'm playing with discrete OPAMP's, and trying a few different tubes. Out of the box with Mav upgrade tube and Op amp this has a very good sound out of it's tube outputs. I find the Project FL slightly more refined and smoother, and slightly tighter bass (both have deep tightly controlled bass), but either is a good choice on a budget if you find yourself avoiding your digital music.
I played around with a number of Schiit Mutibits, various Delta Sigma, Bit Stream Dacs, The Schiit's had a addicting sound out of the gate, and are good DAC's, but are hard to listen to over a extended period of time. The combination of a midbass/midrange emphasis, and forward presentation can really throw things off at times IMHO. I found myself being wowed instead of enjoying the music.
Kind of like my experience with DBX lp’s and their noise reduction/ expansion etc.
Many Delta's seem either bright and edgy, or kinda flat. I have borrowed a Peach Tree DAC IT that's has a nice flow (ESS chip) as well, full sounding, but not as smoothly refined as the FL, or as evenly presented so to speak as the FL, or D1.
I think sometimes you have to sacrifice a slight amount of detail, regardless of price, to find a DAC, player, etc to listen over a long period of time. At least for me. What good is "hearing all the detail you have been missing", if your avoiding you hifi system, because you can only handle 1/2 hour or so before you move on to something else?
And for the Schiit rubes..this doesn't mean they are bad DAC's, far from it. They met there design goals with flying colors. They are just hard to deal with over a extended period of time for this cat.
I'm not trying to say it all has to do with the chip type, but the design goals as well of the engineers. I do think if you have been avoiding your digital music, and going back to LP's tapes etc, try a DAC1, or Project DAC Box S FL (the FL doesn't have USB input though). I think you may find a way of enjoying more of your collection, and not avoiding formats just cause you can't stand the sound. Especially in the case of the D1, with the new Trenor 192 chip, computer audio, even MP3's sound very good. Pretty amazing, and you can take advantage of all the free cool online digital music services. I run a optical line to the D1 from my TV, and am totally blow away from piles youtube music performances!! Smooth and enjoyable sound that's fun again. Like your old Pioneer silver Mach One system from the 70's! Remember when it was really fun to enjoy listening to music?
Well I certainly found that with these 2 DAC's. Amazing!!
I guess I have been in digital denial since my first cd player in 1987 (crappy 14 bit Scott player-bit steam-then a kick ass Phillips player with non over sampling). I moved to what I thought was a forward moving position, more detail, new technology etc. Has to be better? Hmmm....not so much.
Even though I still spin the occasional LP, I'm lazy and hate cleaning records and needles, I just want that same smooth and musical sound.
The Project uses 4 old school non over sampling multibit chips with no filtering and direct coupled to the outputs. Very simple. The D1 uses a Crystal 4398 24 bit (8x over sampling I think), and a 192hz USB chip. I would put the Chord Mojo in this category as well, but not as analogue sounding..still some of that digital sheen. Although its a good balance between trying to be smooth and musical, and more detailed as well.
I'm playing with discrete OPAMP's, and trying a few different tubes. Out of the box with Mav upgrade tube and Op amp this has a very good sound out of it's tube outputs. I find the Project FL slightly more refined and smoother, and slightly tighter bass (both have deep tightly controlled bass), but either is a good choice on a budget if you find yourself avoiding your digital music.
I played around with a number of Schiit Mutibits, various Delta Sigma, Bit Stream Dacs, The Schiit's had a addicting sound out of the gate, and are good DAC's, but are hard to listen to over a extended period of time. The combination of a midbass/midrange emphasis, and forward presentation can really throw things off at times IMHO. I found myself being wowed instead of enjoying the music.
Kind of like my experience with DBX lp’s and their noise reduction/ expansion etc.
Many Delta's seem either bright and edgy, or kinda flat. I have borrowed a Peach Tree DAC IT that's has a nice flow (ESS chip) as well, full sounding, but not as smoothly refined as the FL, or as evenly presented so to speak as the FL, or D1.
I think sometimes you have to sacrifice a slight amount of detail, regardless of price, to find a DAC, player, etc to listen over a long period of time. At least for me. What good is "hearing all the detail you have been missing", if your avoiding you hifi system, because you can only handle 1/2 hour or so before you move on to something else?
And for the Schiit rubes..this doesn't mean they are bad DAC's, far from it. They met there design goals with flying colors. They are just hard to deal with over a extended period of time for this cat.
I'm not trying to say it all has to do with the chip type, but the design goals as well of the engineers. I do think if you have been avoiding your digital music, and going back to LP's tapes etc, try a DAC1, or Project DAC Box S FL (the FL doesn't have USB input though). I think you may find a way of enjoying more of your collection, and not avoiding formats just cause you can't stand the sound. Especially in the case of the D1, with the new Trenor 192 chip, computer audio, even MP3's sound very good. Pretty amazing, and you can take advantage of all the free cool online digital music services. I run a optical line to the D1 from my TV, and am totally blow away from piles youtube music performances!! Smooth and enjoyable sound that's fun again. Like your old Pioneer silver Mach One system from the 70's! Remember when it was really fun to enjoy listening to music?
Well I certainly found that with these 2 DAC's. Amazing!!
I guess I have been in digital denial since my first cd player in 1987 (crappy 14 bit Scott player-bit steam-then a kick ass Phillips player with non over sampling). I moved to what I thought was a forward moving position, more detail, new technology etc. Has to be better? Hmmm....not so much.
Even though I still spin the occasional LP, I'm lazy and hate cleaning records and needles, I just want that same smooth and musical sound.
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nj pheonix
Lunatic Member
I'm not there yet but have been eyeing a dac upgrade. I have the original modi which hasn't been in use for a while (btw when I got I thought a major improvement over soundcard of my pc)
I'm currently using a dac magic 2. Better than my modi though incremental not night and day. I bought with upgraded chipset. I tried boutique chipset upgrade (I didn't think that did much). After trying the tube output (and doing significant tube rolling), I preferred the SS output.
I was looking at bitfrost mb , I was also considering the oppo 205. That would upgrade the transport, the dac, and give me video options I wasn't necessarily looking for but might like to have in the future. The mojo wasn't on my radar, I'll have to look into it.
What was it you didn't like about the 205 as a CD player?
Guys, I appreciate the input and the passion but lighten up here. Nothing in this hobby is one size fits all. You should be able to agree to disagree
Delta77
Super Member
Hello Ginny,
Just wondering how your liking your system, and if you made any changes..?
I pulled the trigger on a DECWARE amp, (ZMA)
And also added to my cable system a Power Box ( 10awg silver coated copper and carbon fiber connectors)
And two 10 awg Power Cables for the ZMA and OPPO plus a 14awg cable for the Apple TV4
Nice setup , where did you get the power box ? Can you send me a link ? Also does it protect against a surge?.
Audiofreak71
Bill Ferris
Lunatic Member
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Chase what snake oil you will, but those products measurably work every time IME..
As you might pursue and see fit..
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