Ordered 1.7i Maggie's today. (Edit) Would like sub ideas please.

[Old Guy8]

Edit: I ordered a pair of 1.7i Maggies today, 1/4/19. In post #25, is my audio shop demo and question on ideas of future subwoofer options.

Following Was original first post before buying Maggies:

Considering Magnepan .7 or 1.7 speakers for mainly jazz, jazz vocals, some blues. Vinyl, CD and streaming radio. Have not heard any Maggies, except at Axpona Audio show. Don't remember model.

I have a Rogue Sphinx hybrid rated at 200 wpc @ 4 ohms, to drive them. These Maggies are 86 db spl sensitivity and 4 ohm. I've had no trouble driving ADS L880 at. 89 db spl, 8 ohm or Ohm C2 at 88 db spl, 6 ohm. (Also have Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated, but suspect not as good match to Maggies, with lower 4 ohm rated power. Edit: From responses, might also work fine.)

I have a dedicated listening room approximately 24'x14.5' widening to 18' for half length x 7' high. It has a 5' wide opening to another room. Area rug and carpet on side of bar in room. A lively room.

Would the Sphinx amp be a decent match for the Maggies?
Would either Maggies above be a decent size for this room?
Speakers can be located as needed, starting where speakers in picture are.

Of course, only my ears make decision if I go for them. But, if buy used may not get chance to hear much. Just looking for opinions based on member experiences. Thanks

 

[jazzmans]

1.6 definitely.

 

[a_retent]

1.6 definitely.

I like my 1.6s too and power them with either a Audio Research D400mkII or a pair of ARC vm220 tube monoblocks. Both amps do 200 wrms and have no issue with the 4Ω load and low efficiency, but my listening area is no where near the size of yours. If your looking to achieve concert sound pressure levels in your space I'm sorry to tell you the maggies won't get it done. However, if average level volumes are your liking your in for a treat once you get them properly set up and find that magic sweet spot. The 1.7s have a larger panel than .7s thus more radiating surface and you're going to want that in your space. Don't expect alot of deep bass from the 1.7s and you may consider the addition of a sealed sub or two to help out with the bottom end duties. I use a pair of Carver Knight Shadow subs and a dbx 120x-ds crossover to control the bottom end. I tried a couple different ported subs with my 1.6s but wasn't happy with the integration, or should I say lack of. I just prefer the tight sound of sealed bass enclosures but that's me. If I'm not mistaken I believe @jazzmans uses subs with his 1.6s also.

But as you mentioned your ears will be the deciding factor so go have some fun.

 

[JoeESP9]

1.7 owner here. Budget allowed the 1.7's would always be my choice. The larger panel allows them to have better Bass.

 

[Old Guy8]

I like my 1.6s too and power them with either a Audio Research D400mkII or a pair of ARC vm220 tube monoblocks. Both amps do 200 wrms and have no issue with the 4Ω load and low efficiency, but my listening area is no where near the size of yours. If your looking to achieve concert sound pressure levels in your space I'm sorry to tell you the maggies won't get it done. However, if average level volumes are your liking your in for a treat once you get them properly set up and find that magic sweet spot. The 1.7s have a larger panel than .7s thus more radiating surface and you're going to want that in your space. Don't expect alot of deep bass from the 1.7s and you may consider the addition of a sealed sub or two to help out with the bottom end duties. I use a pair of Carver Knight Shadow subs and a dbx 120x-ds crossover to control the bottom end. I tried a couple different ported subs with my 1.6s but wasn't happy with the integration, or should I say lack of. I just prefer the tight sound of sealed bass enclosures but that's me. If I'm not mistaken I believe @jazzmans uses subs with his 1.6s also.

But as you mentioned your ears will be the deciding factor so go have some fun.

I'm going to have to be set for amplifiers. One of the two Rogue integrateds have to be enough to power the Maggies, which I'm leaning toward the 1.7's. Or, not going to persue them.
I read a Steve Gutttenburg of Cnet, review of .7's he powered with a Sphinx. He claimed to have plenty of power. Assume he may have been in a smaller room than mine, since he lives in NYC apartment.
I'm not looking for concert level volume.

 

[Old Guy8]

1.7 owner here. Budget allowed the 1.7's would always be my choice. The larger panel allows them to have better Bass.

I am leaning toward the 1.7's for that extra bass rating from Magnepan specs.

 

[ejman]

My listening room is almost the same size as yours (14X26) with 9 ft ceiling and my 1.7's sound great about 6 ft from the front wall ( I also use an HSU sub). Plenty of db's from a Conrad Johnson MF2300A which runs about 400 watts at 4 ohms. But you might be surprised at the wonderful sound from a lower power tube amp. I also use a Jolida 502P tube amp ( 60W/channel) with KT150 tubes and it sounds very nice indeed. It won't reach the run you out of the room levels that the CJ does but it has a magic to its sound. It wouldn't surprise me if you found the sound from your Rogue Cronus Magnum tube integrated more than acceptable.

 

[62caddy]

An important placement consideration is to maintain a good distance between the rear of the speakers from walls.

 

[JoeESP9]

Very true. Mine are ~4' from the front wall.

 

[jazzmans]

my pair of 2.5r are ~4' from the front (rear) wall, and ~3' from side walls

my 1.6 are closer, about 2', but are 5' from sidewalls and I listen to them nearfield dj headphone style so I hear the primary before the reflections get to me.

Both are driven by Carver PM 1.5 or a carver M 1.5 t with power of 450 and 350 watts respectively.

 

[a_retent]

1.7 owner here. Budget allowed the 1.7's would always be my choice. The larger panel allows them to have better Bass.

Not sure what you mean by "better bass" as the freq response of the 1.7i is 40Hz - 24kHz. I can attest my 1.6s (precurser to the 1.7 which has improved listening position) don't provide any fundamental bass below 40Hz unless I use a signal generator, and who listens to that?! However, if your implication of better bass is greater sound pressure in the bass region in which it does reproduce I'll buy that, especially if you aquire acoustic enhancement/enforcement by placing somewhat in the vicinity of a corner. Yes, there is a tradeoff in spatial perception when doing that and you as the listener must decide where that balance is. To me that's kinda the fun of owning these speakers...but that's me. I also agree with you that given the choice of .7 or 1.7 I would also opt for the latter.

I'm going to have to be set for amplifiers. One of the two Rogue integrateds have to be enough to power the Maggies, which I'm leaning toward the 1.7's. Or, not going to persue them.
I read a Steve Gutttenburg of Cnet, review of .7's he powered with a Sphinx. He claimed to have plenty of power. Assume he may have been in a smaller room than mine, since he lives in NYC apartment.
I'm not looking for concert level volume.

Please allow me to clarify, I wasn't suggesting you purchase any new amps here, just trying to help you to be a better informed potential purchaser. In all honesty I don't wish to see you become a disappointed owner because you expected speakers capable of rock concert levels and got something not meeting your expectations. You stated your amp is capable of 200 watts so I offered that my amps provide 200 watts, comparatively the same relative output as yours. I simply alternate between my 2 amps cuz running air conditioning in the summer to cool (16) kt120 and (8) 6N1P tubes at 800 watts of idle current consumption is kinda counter productive. Not trying to promote any brand of amps here just looking at it simply as an electronic unit of measurement, purely from the position of watts is watts.
That being said, based on what you stated earlier, your Sphinx should be MORE than adequate at powering a pair of 1.7s, I can only be relatively certain because I don't own nor ever had that ampilifier in my possession so that would unfortunately be a somewhat subjective opinion on my part. In addition I don't make an income reviewing audio or associated equipment like Steve Guttenburg does, but I will tell you without any fluff what I've experienced with a certain piece without any agenda or cost.

I offer the following excerpt from my Magneplaner owners manual (published Magnepan document) concerning "how much power do the magneplaners require?"

Loudness and accuracy are related in a psycho-acoustic manner (the louder you play your system, the more you are able to hear). Many people listen to their systems at a much higher than "real life" levels. This may help the illusion of realism, but it is no substitute for an inherently accurate speaker. You will find that you can achieve a satisfying sense of realism at a lower level from Magneplaners.
Many people are satisfied with 20 to 50 watt amplifiers, especially on the smaller Magneplaner models. 200 watt amplifiers are the maximum recommended for Magneplaners. Amplifiers with more than 200 watts can be used, but the fuse may blow before the maximum power is reached.
Keep in mind the power requirements in your dealer's showroom are much higher than a home situation. Typically, you will be satisfied with half of the power in your home that you need in a showroom demonstration.

 

[sqlsavior]

I'll be the odd man out here, and advise going with the .7s.

When I replaced my MMGs with 1.7s, I could hear more detail, but was plagued by a harshness at loud volumes. I tried a bunch of positions, forward and backward lean (helped), and some absorption, but not a whole lot. I finally figured out that the 1.7s significant extra height was making for a lot more reflections from the top half of my room, which was very live, compared to the bottom half, which has carpet, couches, and other items for both diffusion and absorption. In the end, I just settled for lower-volume listening. Your room looks pretty live, especially on the top half, too. I'm not saying that you couldn't deal with the problem, but some effort would be needed. I'm also not sure how those closets would do with regard to half of each speaker's front-wall reflections arriving staggered in time - you'll just have to listen for yourself. Possibly toe-in would make that less troublesome. I've always pointed planars directly at my face, fwiw. You may want to place the system along the long wall, but only your experiments and preferences can decide that. IME, more distance from the front wall means more depth to the soundstage.

I'd want to run stereo powered subs with either model to take care of the lowest octave, unless you are springing for their DWM bass panel.

I'm pretty sure that your Cronus Magnum would be your best-sounding option, but your taste may differ from mine. At least you'll know which tap to use!

Good luck.

 

[Old Guy8]

Not sure what you mean by "better bass" as the freq response of the 1.7i is 40Hz - 24kHz. I can attest my 1.6s (precurser to the 1.7 which has improved listening position) don't provide any fundamental bass below 40Hz unless I use a signal generator, and who listens to that?! However, if your implication of better bass is greater sound pressure in the bass region in which it does reproduce I'll buy that, especially if you aquire acoustic enhancement/enforcement by placing somewhat in the vicinity of a corner. Yes, there is a tradeoff in spatial perception when doing that and you as the listener must decide where that balance is. To me that's kinda the fun of owning these speakers...but that's me. I also agree with you that given the choice of .7 or 1.7 I would also opt for the latter.



Please allow me to clarify, I wasn't suggesting you purchase any new amps here, just trying to help you to be a better informed potential purchaser. In all honesty I don't wish to see you become a disappointed owner because you expected speakers capable of rock concert levels and got something not meeting your expectations. You stated your amp is capable of 200 watts so I offered that my amps provide 200 watts, comparatively the same relative output as yours. I simply alternate between my 2 amps cuz running air conditioning in the summer to cool (16) kt120 and (8) 6N1P tubes at 800 watts of idle current consumption is kinda counter productive. Not trying to promote any brand of amps here just looking at it simply as an electronic unit of measurement, purely from the position of watts is watts.
That being said, based on what you stated earlier, your Sphinx should be MORE than adequate at powering a pair of 1.7s, I can only be relatively certain because I don't own nor ever had that ampilifier in my possession so that would unfortunately be a somewhat subjective opinion on my part. In addition I don't make an income reviewing audio or associated equipment like Steve Guttenburg does, but I will tell you without any fluff what I've experienced with a certain piece without any agenda or cost.

I offer the following excerpt from my Magneplaner owners manual (published Magnepan document) concerning "how much power do the magneplaners require?"

Loudness and accuracy are related in a psycho-acoustic manner (the louder you play your system, the more you are able to hear). Many people listen to their systems at a much higher than "real life" levels. This may help the illusion of realism, but it is no substitute for an inherently accurate speaker. You will find that you can achieve a satisfying sense of realism at a lower level from Magneplaners.
Many people are satisfied with 20 to 50 watt amplifiers, especially on the smaller Magneplaner models. 200 watt amplifiers are the maximum recommended for Magneplaners. Amplifiers with more than 200 watts can be used, but the fuse may blow before the maximum power is reached.
Keep in mind the power requirements in your dealer's showroom are much higher than a home situation. Typically, you will be satisfied with half of the power in your home that you need in a showroom demonstration.

I didn't read that you were pushing an amp change. Just giving your impressions with your gear. All I could ask. I'm reasonably confident either of my Rogues can drive them, with Sphinx a little more at 4 ohms. But the Cronus should be slightly more velvety.
I listen to mainly jazz at only moderate levels.
Thanks for info.

 

[Old Guy8]

I'll be the odd man out here, and advise going with the .7s.

When I replaced my MMGs with 1.7s, I could hear more detail, but was plagued by a harshness at loud volumes. I tried a bunch of positions, forward and backward lean (helped), and some absorption, but not a whole lot. I finally figured out that the 1.7s significant extra height was making for a lot more reflections from the top half of my room, which was very live, compared to the bottom half, which has carpet, couches, and other items for both diffusion and absorption. In the end, I just settled for lower-volume listening. Your room looks pretty live, especially on the top half, too. I'm not saying that you couldn't deal with the problem, but some effort would be needed. I'm also not sure how those closets would do with regard to half of each speaker's front-wall reflections arriving staggered in time - you'll just have to listen for yourself. Possibly toe-in would make that less troublesome. I've always pointed planars directly at my face, fwiw. You may want to place the system along the long wall, but only your experiments and preferences can decide that. IME, more distance from the front wall means more depth to the soundstage.

I'd want to run stereo powered subs with either model to take care of the lowest octave, unless you are springing for their DWM bass panel.

I'm pretty sure that your Cronus Magnum would be your best-sounding option, but your taste may differ from mine. At least you'll know which tap to use!

Good luck.

Yes, have read they are position picky. Yes, front wall not ideal. Closet one side and stairway up on otherside. This is best wall, I think. Long wall at left would only have 14' depth. An S shape bar other end juts into room and in the way for other short wall.
I appreciate hearing your experience between .7i and 1.7i. Guess the more expensive isn't always best. I could see my low 7' height could emphasize reflections. Basement is a new remodel so ceiling sound pad mounting will be a last resort. But could be done.
That 1.7i rating of 40 hertz lows is appealing. About same as my ADS L880 and Ohm C2's. Could see posibility of two active subwoofers down road.

I have the speakers, TTs and chair covered to avoid cat damage. Not for styling.

 

[Old Guy8]

Thanks to all for your posts of your experiences.

I heard Maggies at the Chicago Axpona show last April. Don't remember model. I'll see if direction for me.

 

[Samokan]

I have been using a 50wpc chip amp on my .7 and it sounds superb. I would have loved to have them hooked up to my set amp but my son has it on the other side of the country. Point is these speakers are not limited only with higher powered amps as we frequently hear. My opinion and mine only. Thanks.

 

[savatage1973]

I have Maggie 3.6R's in a fairly large open room (20' X 28') placed 14' apart on the shorter wall, and 52" out from the backing wall. They are 6' X 2' panels with the true ribbon tweeter running the entire vertical length of the mylar mid/bass section. Frequency response 34Hz to 40KHz +/-3dB, 4 ohm nominal impedance, 86dB 1w/1m--powered by two Aragon 4004 amplifiers (400 wpc/4 ohm).

Only modification has been to the (external) crossovers to allow for bi-amping--points/slopes not changed from factory spec. Fresh ribbons from Magnapan a few years ago--I acquired them for next to nothing because one ribbon had been damaged by the PO--no delamination issues with the wire on mylar panels (yet).

Overkill on the power (I know), but I had the Aragons here already (I had been using them for Kappa 9's). The Maggies will certainly fill the room with sound--at very high levels. I do not use a sub with them.

What most people fail to realize about dipoles/planars is that they can go deep into low frequencies and produce high SPLs, but they "resonate", rather than "pound you in the chest" at lower frequencies. If you want that "knock you out of your chair" experience, you will need a sub--regardless of how low the panel will go. The Maggies (and my Apogee Divas) are deceiving--they don't seem that "loud", until you try to talk to the person standing next to you. The advantage is that they are (IMO) far more "transparent" than a conventional cone/box speaker. You are not "pounded" by sound, rather "immersed" in it.

Just my two cents--that and a couple bucks will get you a cup of coffee...

 

[JoeESP9]

What most people fail to realize about dipoles/planars is that they can go deep into low frequencies and produce high SPLs, but they "resonate", rather than "pound you in the chest" at lower frequencies. If you want that "knock you out of your chair" experience, you will need a sub--regardless of how low the panel will go. The Maggies (and my Apogee Divas) are deceiving--they don't seem that "loud", until you try to talk to the person standing next to you. The advantage is that they are (IMO) far more "transparent" than a conventional cone/box speaker. You are not "pounded" by sound, rather "immersed" in it.

Just my two cents--that and a couple bucks will get you a cup of coffee...

As a user of panels of one type or another since 1976 I totally agree with you.

 

[E-Stat]

Yes, have read they are position picky.

Ideally, any dipole would be located at room thirds for best image and most linear bass response - both laterally and longitudinally. Lucky lad I am, that's how the big stats are situated.

Perhaps you might move some stuff around.

 

[savatage1973]

Ideally, any dipole would be located at room thirds for best image and most linear bass response - both laterally and longitudinally.

This is certainly the biggest "downside" to dipoles. They tend to have low WAF and are not well-suited for use in "shared spaces", like the average living-room or family rec-room. I know lots of folks who would love to own them, but don't have the proper space to effectively utilize them.