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Ortofon MC-20

toby7362

toby7362

New Member
Hello all,
I have a Yamaha ypd71 with an ortofon mc-20 cartridge that I acquired. I purchased a NAD preamp because I was getting a very low volume with my phono jacks in receiver. My receiver isn’t great but it’s rated at 35 watts per channel. It’s a fisher.

Using the NAD preamp and plugging into normal line inputs on the fisher gives clear sound but low volume. By trial and error, I have found that switching to a moving magnet cartridge and regular phono inputs produces very loud sound. So, the Fisher is fine and the TT seems to be fine with the MM cartridge.

I would love to use the MC cartridge but cannot figure out why the volume is so low even with the preamp. Please help me. I am stumped. Could it be the preamp? The cartridge? Turntable? Something else?
 
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The MC cartridge is low output and needs a step-up stage that your Fisher doesn't have. The MM is much higher output.
 
Actually the MC-20 is a VLOMC

output is 70µV, yes seventy microvolts which is 0.07mV. Most LOMC have an output from 0.2-0.8mV. This cartridge is an order of magnitude below that roughly and needs in the neighborhood of 70dB to a line level input is using a phono amp for it or a gain or 35dB to go into a regular MM phono input.

Ortofon made the STM-72 in line plug in transformer and the MCA-76 pre-pre amp to use this cartridge into the MM phono input on gear. The MCA has 34dB gain and the STM has a 1:60 winding ratio.

Make sure you get transformers or amplifiers that can boost the signal enough.
 
@Hobie1dog Thank you so much for the information. So, is a step up stage a phono preamp? If so, which one would work? If not, what is it?

@Blue Shadow Thank you as well. If I use the stm-72, do I plug right into a regular phono jack? And it will produce the right volume? Very much appreciated.
 
The bay, maybe audio asylum

You can use a few other SUTs but will have to crank the volume and still might not get full volume. Most phono amps/SUTs are designed for another 20-25dB gain.
 
toby7362 said:
I purchased a NAD preamp because I was getting a very low volume with my phono jacks in receiver.
Using the NAD preamp and plugging into normal line inputs on the fisher gives clear sound but low volume
Click to expand...
I presume the NAD is compatible with mc cartridges. What model is it?
Blue Shadow said:
Actually the MC-20 is a VLOMC

output is 70µV, yes seventy microvolts which is 0.07mV. Most LOMC have an output from 0.2-0.8mV. This cartridge is an order of magnitude below that roughly and needs in the neighborhood of 70dB to a line level input is using a phono amp for it or a gain or 35dB to go into a regular MM phono input.

Ortofon made the STM-72 in line plug in transformer and the MCA-76 pre-pre amp to use this cartridge into the MM phono input on gear. The MCA has 34dB gain and the STM has a 1:60 winding ratio.

Make sure you get transformers or amplifiers that can boost the signal enough.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct, though the MC20 went through several revisions and the later ones had higher outputs than the original. Do we know what model of MC20 the OP has?
If it's the original with 0.07mV output the sound will be low even when using an mc phonostage, and the the signal-to-noise ratio will probably leave something to be desired. This is one cartridge which is best used with its dedicated step-up transformer, which (if I remember correctly) had a turns ratio of about 1:50.

toby7362 said:
Do you know where to find one for sale? Thank you
Click to expand...
You'll have to look around for a second-hand one. Perhaps you could ask in bartertown if anyone has one they'd like to sell.
 
Thank you everyone. You have been a GREAT help. Your knowledge astounds me. Thank you.
@rothwellaudio i am not sure the version I have. I would assume it’s the one with very low output. How would I tell?
I found a step up transformer for about 200. However, you mentioned the signal to noise ratio is not great. Would it be better to just buy a newer MM cartridge? Would I get a better quality of sound with a newer cartridge?
 
toby7362 said:
Thank you everyone. You have been a GREAT help. Your knowledge astounds me. Thank you.
@rothwellaudio i am not sure the version I have. I would assume it’s the one with very low output. How would I tell?
I found a step up transformer for about 200. However, you mentioned the signal to noise ratio is not great. Would it be better to just buy a newer MM cartridge? Would I get a better quality of sound with a newer cartridge?
Click to expand...
I think they're all clearly marked as to which model they are, ie mkII, Super, Supreme etc.
The signal-to-noise ratio will be fine if you use the correct transformer for the cartridge. If you use a more common step-up transformer (turns ratio of about 1:20 or 1:30) the signal-to-noise ratio will still be ok. The S/N ratio is likely to be p1$$ poor if you use a cheap mc phonostage.
rothwellaudio said:
This is one cartridge which is best used with its dedicated step-up transformer, which (if I remember correctly) had a turns ratio of about 1:50.
Click to expand...
Blue Shadow said:
Ortofon made the STM-72 in line plug in transformer...
...the STM has a 1:60 winding ratio.
Click to expand...
You're probably right with 1:60.
 
toby7362 said:
... i am not sure the version I have. I would assume it’s the one with very low output. How would I tell?
Click to expand...
Take a photo of yours? This is the original with 70uV output.
MC20-CH7W.jpg

Would it be better to just buy a newer MM cartridge? Would I get a better quality of sound with a newer cartridge?
Click to expand...
That depends on the condition of your MC-20. If the diamond is worn out, a different cart may be best. Otherwise the MC-20 is a fine cartridge. It's one of few LOMC that has fairly high compliance with lower tracking force, best with a lower mass arm.

I use one with a DIY 34dB gain pre-pre amp, and it is very quiet.
 
rothwellaudio said:
Do we know what model of MC20 the OP has?
Click to expand...
I work off the information provided which we both know can be lacking at times but in this case I read MC-20, not MC-20 Super or MC-20II or anything other than the first one. It is up to the OP to post full information on the units they need the info for and I have called out a few folks for leaving all of that information out of a post when looking for help. Makes a big difference.
 
MC-20.jpg MC-20 II.jpg MC-20 Super.jpg MC-20 Supreme.jpg

Pretty easy to tell them apart and the reason I talked to the MC-20 is because most that post a name would post the full name of the unit from the front of the cartridge. As Rothwell stated there are differences in output.

It is an excellent sounding cartridge and got a friend into MC cartridges when I loaned him mine. Comes back from listening to AT 440MLa and Shure V15II SAS and says the Ortofon doesn't have bass. Hours later corrects himself saying its bass is more accurate and tighter and better but not as much as the other two, more natural and real.

The MC-20 was everywhere back in the late 70s and they sold a pile of them. The other three, actually 4 since the MC-20II was reintroduced since it was made available 25 years after it was around don't seem to be as easy to find.
 
My MC-20 is the original. It does not have any other words after MC-20.
It is the exact one that @HalfApt posted above.
I really love the sound quality and I will look get a SUT to create the best sonic soundscape.

The STM-72 seems hard to find. I have read the other suggestions as well but some are way more money than the cartridge is worth..in my estimation and from what I see them going for, it might be worth 150-200...but maybe less.
I will keep my MC-20..Does anyone have any suggestions to boost Db’s to good listening volume that is not super expensive.
Also, if I post a picture, would you be able to tell the condition? Or is that a in person analysis?
Thanks again everyone.
 
Non-replaceable stylus, Ortofon offering a trade-in of some 20 percent of list toward a new cartridge but the 20 is so old its price isn't high today to the credit might be 60 bucks or less.

You can go into a unit with a preamp output and MC input and run the preamp output into the aux of another amplifier. That will allow you to get a bit of gain from the preamp above the level of the tape outputs. Very, very important to turn all volumes down, you are now using at least two before changing anything unless you know what you are doing.

There is an MCA-76, a much better unit than the STM on the bay for not a lot but these things and good step up transformers are in the 300 and up range. The STM might be under 200 depending.

If you spring for one of these, you will be able to use them with other MC cartridges but their output will be kinda high so I would only look for cartridges with 0.2mV or less output for use with those two high gain devices.

The Fidelity Research FRT-3 will give you 31dB gain (Ortofon does 34dB so close) and it is adjustable to use with other MC cartridges and there are some on the bay for under 3 delivered.

Now we know you have an MC-20 and a YDP-71, but I got absolutely no idea wtf a NAD preamp is or a 35wpc Fisher. I say this because for the best help you should put the model number of the units as there are vast differences in what each component can do and those willing to help need to know which models you have. But I'm thinking the NAD into the Fisher might work...but does the NAD have an MC input?
 
toby7362 said:
...Also, if I post a picture, would you be able to tell the condition? Or is that a in person analysis?
Click to expand...
It looks good generally, but the the diamond stylus (the most important part) can only be judged by a trained eye under magnification. With an unknown condition stylus, it might be worth trying to get it inspected before spending more money on SUT or head-amp.

Can you DIY solder a circuit board? There are some decent DIY head-amp designs that can accommodate the MC-20 gain requirements without breaking the bank.
 
Thank you for the information.
@Blue Shadow Great ideas. I will look into some of your suggestions. The NAD preamp I have is model # PP2e. I bought it because it has inputs for both MC and MM and switch to click between the two choices. There is no volume or gain on the device.
The Fisher is model # RS-1035:
Here is a small write up: Fisher stereo receiver model RS-1035. From 1978 - 1980. Rated at 35 watts per channel. Features, One tape monitor, one phono input, one aux input, mono mode on/off, High filter on/off, loudness contour on/off, record out, functions - phono - FM - AM - aux, separate treble and bass controls, and a tuning and meter. Neat Fisher receiver.

@HalfApt I will look into getting it inspected by a professional. From my ears it sounds better than other carts I have tried. I can not solder a board. That would be out of my comfort zone.

Any other info/thoughts are very appreciated. Thank you.
 
Using the NAD in MC mode you will be able to enjoy your MC 20 but you won't be able to get full volume for some quiet parts of the records. You really want 70dB gain from the NAD and you have 60.

You will be able to enjoy the cartridge at these lower power levels to see how it sounds. Gives you a chance to play with it while you decide what to do. Go ahead and use full volume on the Fisher just be sure to turn it down whenever you step up to make a change. You may hear more noise at that volume level so be aware of that issue.
 
Yes, I have been using the NAD that way and the volume is extremely low. However, it does work and sounds very good. I would like to find the right equipment to use so I can do everything the proper way. If it does sound good but lower volume, does that mean my cartridge is good and and working as it should? Anything to look out for when listening? Thank you
 
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