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Other styli for the AT12Sa

Gurkov

Gurkov

Active Member
I’m wondering about the styli options for an Audio Technica AT12Sa cartridge.

Most places I’ve looked, people say the the AT13, 14 or 15 won’t fit, but then I saw someone saying that one of the 14 versions actually does fit. So can anyone with actual experience verify one or the other?

I had the original shibata stylus for the AT12Sa, and while it tracked eminently, I personally prefer a bit more body to the sound (especially with my Luxman R-1040 receiver, and I just came from a Shure M75, which of course didn’t track like a star, but had a very pleasant warmth). I sold the shibata and now only a have an extremely cheap generic spherical or conical. Is there a stylus for the 12Sa that comes at least somewhere close to the refinement of the shibata, but has a little more body and/or bass?

Someone somewhere said he preferred the ATN12XE to the Sa, but I would love to hear some more opinions on that or other options. Or if one the 13/14/15 actually fits, would any one of then suit me better?

I should add that I’m on a Luxman PD 282, medium mass arm (14g, I think).
 
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Gurkov said:
Someone somewhere said he preferred the ATN12XE to the Sa
Click to expand...

I have read the same comment about the AT15, the XE sounded better than the Sa.

There are those here that think the Shibata has past its prime, being developed for CD-4 records with response to 45,000Hz needed for the 4-Channel sound and all the new fine/mirco line shapes are better. The 3x7 elliptical isn't the finest line but it is a standard that many companies used for years. If there is a 12XE available might be worth having to keep that cartridge fed with a nice needle.
 
Blue Shadow said:
I have read the same comment about the AT15, the XE sounded better than the Sa.

There are those here that think the Shibata has past its prime, being developed for CD-4 records with response to 45,000Hz needed for the 4-Channel sound and all the new fine/mirco line shapes are better. The 3x7 elliptical isn't the finest line but it is a standard that many companies used for years. If there is a 12XE available might be worth having to keep that cartridge fed with a nice needle.
Click to expand...

Ah, so there are others out there. :)

Yep, might look for an XE, or perhaps try the Analogis Black Diamond, which should be a nude elliptical. A micro line probably would be cool to try, but not easy to find one in Europe...
 
I wonder what exactly this stylus is, that was in a plastic Zafira case saying:

Zafira Diamant Stereo 5690
Fisher ATS 10 L/ST 35 V0 (or possibly VD or VO)

Shape-wise it sure looks like the ATS12S if I look at the Stereo Needles page. But this one has the smaller logo and "audio technica" instead of the "12S" - i.e. like the other 12 styli. If it's intended for a Fisher clone of the AT cartridge, then it shouldn't carry the logo and all, right? Is it a "fake" AT? Or something else? Anyone?

EDIT:

It should be a AT VM8-7D stylus, right?
 

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Thanks @lini ! Should be OK for keeping my old AT12Sa cart in business a while longer - might use it for those not-in-great-shape records that need a conical. :)
 
Gurkov: You can certainly use it for that purpose. Mind you, that the VM8-7D will require a higher tracking force of ca. 2.5 to 3 g, though. So in case you'd prefer a conical, that could be run with pretty much the same tracking force as an ATN12S, you should look for an ATS12C instead. And in case you'd like to try a higher quality, nude and pretty sharp (= 0.5 mil) conical, you could look for a VM3-5D.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
lini said:
Gurkov: You can certainly use it for that purpose. Mind you, that the VM8-7D will require a higher tracking force of ca. 2.5 to 3 g, though. So in case you'd prefer a conical, that could be run with pretty much the same tracking force as an ATN12S, you should look for an ATS12C instead. And in case you'd like to try a higher quality, nude and pretty sharp (= 0.5 mil) conical, you could look for a VM3-5D.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...

Interesting, didn’t know there were such variations of conicals - though it makes sense of course. Thanks for the tip! ;)
 
Another AT question. If you put an ATN14 stylus (i.e. a Shibata) in an AT13Ea body? Do you still get the same performance as with the original AT14Sa body, or is there a little less high end degradation...?

I'm thinking of how styli like the Empire 4000D and Excel S70 EX4 work but don't perform at exactly 100% in non 4-channel bodies...
 
I'm pretty sure the performance of that stylus in the 13ea body will not be the same. The 13ea is a higher inductance body than the 14.
 
Ah, yes, then it should be different... I saw an ATN14 stylus for a decent price, but the carts are pretty expensive too, at least on the bay, so. Will probably pass.
 
Well, I ended up with an ATS14 stylus instead. Pretty cheap, but I don’t expect to find a reasonably priced cart for it in the nearest future...

Think I’ve written down all the various Audio Technica bodies, thanks to a very informative post by @lini Very much appreciated!

Are there any clones from different brands other than the JVC 4MD-20X?
 
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The Pfanstiehl number is 629. I picked up a couple when Voice of Music was selling a Swiss 629-DE that was 2x7. It's a good sounding stylus. I recently got a 629-DQ (Shibata) and to tell you the truth it doesn't sound that much better than the DE. Voice of Music is now selling a DE that's 3x7. I've never tried one of the 3x7s. I have seen the 2x7s on the bay though.
 
lini said:
Gurkov: You can certainly use it for that purpose. Mind you, that the VM8-7D will require a higher tracking force of ca. 2.5 to 3 g, though. So in case you'd prefer a conical, that could be run with pretty much the same tracking force as an ATN12S, you should look for an ATS12C instead. And in case you'd like to try a higher quality, nude and pretty sharp (= 0.5 mil) conical, you could look for a VM3-5D.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Click to expand...
Hello Manfred. Sorry to reply to such an old thread but I’m wondering what tracking force to use on a new Tonar (782) hyper-elliptical replacement stylus for this cartridge? Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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