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P-Mounts: Do you like them?

I have found that when you get to this level of Set-Up, that it is the Cut of the LP which makes the Most Difference...No matter how Dead On your Set-Up is, a Poorly Cut LP will sound Poor...And, no Millimeters will fix that...
 
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Decibel_116 said:
So why would anyone consider a P-mount cartridge? Well besides the fact that they sound great in the right application and are easy to swap, I think they are really fun and cool. For those considering getting into vinyl again or for the first time, P-mount turntables are a great choice. There are many excellent vintage Technics P-mount turntables available on the used market that are relatively inexpensive and with excellent performance specifications. Most of these will outperform new turntables at twice the price.
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A lot of people, many with long experience with vinyl, just aren't into all the fine tuning required with 1/2" cartridges. For those people, a good T4P table with a standard-compliant cartridge is the ideal turntable.

Also, there are those who are just getting into vinyl and having to deal with the fairly arcane and esoteric nature of VTA, VTF, SRA, IGD, and whatever other obscure acronym you like can be enough to put them off their feed. Give 'em a good P-mount and let 'em get their feet wet that way and maybe some day they'll feel like venturing into the unknown.

Or not. ;)

John
 
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boreas said:
A lot of people, many with long experience with vinyl, just aren't into all the fine tuning required with 1/2" cartridges. For those people, a good T4P table with a standard-compliant cartridge is the ideal turntable.

Also, there are those who are just getting into vinyl and having to deal with the fairly arcane and esoteric nature of VTA, VTF, SRA, IGD, and whatever other obscure acronym you like can be enough to put them off their feed. Give 'em a good P-mount and let 'em get their feet wet that way and maybe some day they'll feel like venturing into the unknown.

Or not. ;)

John
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To me, that "unknown" is a rediculous obsession designed to make people nuts in the head over trivial stuff.
Society's already bizzare enough, with millions walking around like zombies, staring at tiny LCD screens in their palms.
But that's for another thread.
 
specialone53 said:
To me, that "unknown" is a rediculous obsession designed to make people nuts in the head over trivial stuff.
Society's already bizzare enough, with millions walking around like zombies, staring at tiny LCD screens in their palms.
But that's for another thread.
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Probably trying to figure out how to measure 1mm...:D
 
I tolerate P mount. I prefer 1/2" mount and cartridge choices. Which aren't offered in P mount. I do keep a headshell with a P mount adapter, and lust after one of the Technics P mount headshells they made. Which for me would be the best of both worlds.
 
I remember this thread from the first time around.

I've got one of the Technics SH-90S p-mount headshells, black with adjustable length. Recently, a silver SH-80S sold on eBay for over $200.
 
If it works for you, more power to ya. But I feel like I can't relax unless I know I can adjust the cartridge and tracking force. Yes it's a PITA to set up cartridges, I know.
 
SSaxdude said:
If it works for you, more power to ya. But I feel like I can't relax unless I know I can adjust the cartridge and tracking force. Yes it's a PITA to set up cartridges, I know.
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For me, that's part of the pleasure of enjoying analog playback. It takes more work than other formats, but it's worth it.

However, I also like the "plug-n-play" aspect of P-mounts...although they often need a little tweaking. It's really not all "set it and forget it". It depends on the weight of the cartridge and the stylus used. Not all P-mounts can be set at 1.25...that's a little unrealistic. If P-mounts are your game, get a P-mount table that has at least a little tracking force adjustment. Conicals, when used in a P-mount cartridge, will need a little more than 1.25 to really track properly. Fortunately the P-mount table I have (Sony PS-LX 55II linear tracker) allows for fine tuning of the tracking force (there is a small weight on the side of the tonearm that slides back and forth)...a feature that I really like. With my digital tracking force gauge, I can easily zero in on my preferred tracking force for P-mounts: 1.35 gr for ellipticals, and 1.4 gr for conicals. To me, this is an important feature because not all P-mounts weigh the same. Some weigh 6.0 gr and others weigh 5.9 gr. I have one AT P-mount that weighs approx 5 gr (it's an older model).

I never use 1.25 gr tracking force with P-mount cartridges. For me, that's not enough.
 
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SSaxdude said:
If it works for you, more power to ya. But I feel like I can't relax unless I know I can adjust the cartridge and tracking force. Yes it's a PITA to set up cartridges, I know.
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My eyesight is bad, and continues to get worse. I don't miss the alignment part at all, since I don't hear any problems caused by mis-alignment. Well, perhaps I do, there are a few carts in my collection that should sound better than they do which fail the stem-to-stern length T4P standard, but I (understadibly) tend to use the carts where I do enjoy the sound.

On the other hand, both my Technics SL-MA1 and SL-M3 do allow for adjustment of tracking force (and anti-skate on the MA1) which allows me to use a wide variety of p-mount cartridges.

If I were to pull my old SL-Q5 out of the file cabinet where it is stored to give it away, since it doesn't allow for adjustment of tracking force, I'd make sure to select a cartridge that did match up to the T4P standard and sounded good on that machine. I'd just have to give it away to a non-tweaker. :D
 
The P-mount only failing IMO is the majority of the cheap light weight tables produced to accompany them . Plenty of high quality cartridges are available just the like wise tables to choose from is limited.


Barney
 
I have to join the conversation and chime in...Back in the early 80's I worked in the A/V business and bought an Onkyo PL-25F and had an AT ATU12E2 T4P cartridge that sounded pretty darn good. The player was used for a few years and then put back in the factory box and stored away for 20 years or so. CD's replaced my T.T. and records for the home and tapes for the car.

Skip ahead to near present day...I kept all of my LP's from my youth and along the way friends gave me alot of their albums.

I got back into LP's and started my renewed love with T.T's first picking up a Harman Kardon ST-7, and another, and then an ST-8 and a total of eight wands or arms for 1/2" cartridges.

Then it happened, I saw a mint condition Sony PS-LX500 linear table (P-Mount) and bid on it and won. The table just needed the most basic of cleaning outside and internally, lubing the transport and replacing a belt for the arm drive. Works like new now. Then over the last few months I have managed to pick up (buy on Ebay):

Pickering TL-3 Used but like new stylus, very low hours use.
Pickering TLV625E x 1 NOS!
Pickering XL-33U x 2 NOS!
Technics P23 used with a good condition stylus (I think it's a conical, but not using it, needed lots of cleaning to get some grunge off the front of the diamond, under a USB camera it looks very sharp still) I bought a NOS Pfanstiehl 718DE stylus that plays very well on it.
Sony VL45G body came with the table, with a new conical again not using it. I bought a Pfanstiehl 213-HE for $38 and was enjoying it when surfing one night saw it on line for $18 (mis priced on line as the basic elliptical) and bought a spare!

The little Sony table is being used in my bedroom system and so far gets used pretty regularly in the morning getting ready for work, and again a night when falling off to sleep. All of the P-Mounts I listed above play my "sibilance test" record Peter Gabriel's So LP with out any issues at all. Which is completely a huge surprise to me!

And just a few days ago again looking at cartridges on Ebay, I found a seller selling a pair of Technics P-Mounts one is a P24 and the other a P28 with shipping for $25, naturally I couldn't pass it up. The pair should be arriving sometime in the coming week and when they do, you can bet I will test and compare to the P23 that's on the table now and report back.

UPDATE:

I found no discernable sound difference using either of the recent additions (P-24 & P28). Interesting factoids: P-24 has the T4P logo, silver pins. P-28 has no logo, and gold pins.

For now the P-23 is on the table running a Pfanstiehl 718-DE and is a solid performer with any and all albums played!:music::music:

Yeah I am a fan (again)! I like the simplicity and convenience. Does anyone else have any experience/knowledge of the Sony PS-LX500's? I think the chassis is cast aluminum, it seems heavier and appears to have casting flash edges on the underside. It's got a stiff chassis and near dead if you tap it.

Added comment: It's definitely a cast alloy chassis.


Overall I am very pleased how well it performs with my other period vintage gear from Pioneer (SA-6500II and TX-5500II)
 
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I like them. I hate messing with cartridge setup. Its half the reason I like my record changers. There is no alignment, you just bolt the cartridge in and set the weight.
 
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