Pete's Self-Indulgent Introduction & Sansui Collection Post

[petesui]

Can't tell from the pictures, is the lettering on the silver part of the panel stamped (embossed) or just screen printed? Most 800's I've seen had embossed legends in the aluminum, but this one is fairly late in production if it's from 1970. It was the contemporary of the smaller, but very similar 350, which all had embossed panels so far as I know.

These two models were replaced by the 1000x and 350A, respectively, and the 350A began production with embossed panels, but was changed to screen print during it's run. Not sure if the same is true of the 1000X or not, having not seen enough examples of them yet.

I can't tell from the listing pics either. They don't blow up well. I'm going to guess screened and be pleasantly surprised if embossed. Everything I can find to read indicates it's of the well built era nonetheless. Although, I've since realized they may not be all that simple. Started reading @stereofun's restoration thread. It'll be cool though.

 

[Sansuiman]

Yes, well built no doubt. The transition away from embossed to printed panels was an early indicator of cost reductions taking place, along with knobs no longer being solid aluminum, but aluminum skins over plastic cores. I can't really fault the latter, solid aluminum knobs were unnecessary overkill IMHO, even if they were a mark of quality that well represented the company philosophy.

The whole embossed panels thing with Sansui is a bit strange. They didn't do it but on a few selected models from approximately 1968-71, almost all models prior to and after that specific time frame had screen printed legends. I'm not sure if Sansui began doing embossed panels in response to the competition doing so, or because they had some quality control issues with screen printing on units made in 1967-68 and thought embossing would be a way to avoid those issues.

My dad's 5000 (which still does duty at my mom's house to this day) had a poor screen print job, and I had to buy and install a replacement panel about 15 years ago because the original had so much lettering missing just from finger contact around the controls. The replacement was from a later run, and of much better screen printing quality. Just another curious episode in Sansui history.

 

[petesui]

Yes, well built no doubt. The transition away from embossed to printed panels was an early indicator of cost reductions taking place, along with knobs no longer being solid aluminum, but aluminum skins over plastic cores. I can't really fault the latter, solid aluminum knobs were unnecessary overkill IMHO, even if they were a mark of quality that well represented the company philosophy.

The whole embossed panels thing with Sansui is a bit strange. They didn't do it but on a few selected models from approximately 1968-71, almost all models prior to and after that specific time frame had screen printed legends. I'm not sure if Sansui began doing embossed panels in response to the competition doing so, or because they had some quality control issues with screen printing on units made in 1967-68 and thought embossing would be a way to avoid those issues.

My dad's 5000 (which still does duty at my mom's house to this day) had a poor screen print job, and I had to buy and install a replacement panel about 15 years ago because the original had so much lettering missing just from finger contact around the controls. The replacement was from a later run, and of much better screen printing quality. Just another curious episode in Sansui history.

There is a 5000 available locally. It's been listed for a while. Seller doesn't seem to know much about it - something like, it's been in the house forever it works fine. Worth investigating further? Looks to be in good cosmetic condition.

Edit: Actually, it's a 5000A.

 

[Sansuiman]

5000, and the A variant (which are very nearly identical for all practical purposes, the 5000X was a somewhat more significant revision) are excellent cap coupled receivers. They are known for driver board issues with the original design F-1040 (which is correctable via mods) or replaced with the "F-6013" reproduction driver boards probably still available on eBay (I haven't looked in a while, as mine have been done) but other than that are rock solid units that deliver real punch. Almost double the power of the 800 at an honest 55WPC that sounds like more.

I'm not sure picking one up is warranted, considering your other holdings (which is turning into quite the nice collection) but then I've never been much for restraint in collecting...just one more amp (hint: it's never just one more). The 5000/A is a signature piece by Sansui IMHO, it was a hugely popular seller in the Vietnam War era to US Military personnel, who brought them (and the 2000A/X) home in large quantities. Those two models probably made Sansui's reputation in the US more than anything else, prior to the time they began major direct importing and marketing in the US domestic market.

If it's a good deal, and not a basket case, I'd probably grab it. But that's how I roll. YMMV.

 

[petesui]

5000, and the A variant (which are very nearly identical for all practical purposes, the 5000X was a somewhat more significant revision) are excellent cap coupled receivers. They are known for driver board issues with the original design F-1040 (which is correctable via mods) or replaced with the "F-6013" reproduction driver boards probably still available on eBay (I haven't looked in a while, as mine have been done) but other than that are rock solid units that deliver real punch. Almost double the power of the 800 at an honest 55WPC that sounds like more.

I'm not sure picking one up is warranted, considering your other holdings (which is turning into quite the nice collection) but then I've never been much for restraint in collecting...just one more amp (hint: it's never just one more). The 5000/A is a signature piece by Sansui IMHO, it was a hugely popular seller in the Vietnam War era to US Military personnel, who brought them (and the 2000A/X) home in large quantities. Those two models probably made Sansui's reputation in the US more than anything else, prior to the time they began major direct importing and marketing in the US domestic market.

If it's a good deal, and not a basket case, I'd probably grab it. But that's how I roll. YMMV.

I'm on it. It's been listed a long while. There's a deal to be made. Now that I'm tuned in, it looks very nice and to be from a good home. I'd read up on the driver board issue. Probably no practical way to check in this situation. I knew you'd have a good historical perspective. Thank you. And, yeah, I'm clearly a long way from just one more.

 

[stereofun]

I can't tell from the listing pics either. They don't blow up well. I'm going to guess screened and be pleasantly surprised if embossed. Everything I can find to read indicates it's of the well built era nonetheless. Although, I've since realized they may not be all that simple. Started reading @stereofun's restoration thread. It'll be cool though.

I rebuild this 800 for my daughter, today in school 5000 miles away in Europe.

So I took it back temporarily and moved it onto better speakers and source.

Wow - it is absolutely one of the best cap couplers out there from Sansui, fully on par with a restored 505 or 555a that I own as well. It has the voicing of the 777a with a really nice low end, and great mid detail. Where the "5xx's" are accentuated around the mid- to high bass, the 800 goes for the mid- to high mid - and it has a better stereo perspective...

So I call it the poor man's 777a - as a great compliment.

In the thread I had to do a bit of tweaking to get the higher pitched voicing delicate and soft, and used film caps/Silmics in the signal and film bypasses on the couplers - but so worth it. It's a sleeper, punching way above its weight in perceived power.

 

[petesui]

I rebuild this 800 for my daughter, today in school 5000 miles away in Europe.

So I took it back temporarily and moved it onto better speakers and source.

Wow - it is absolutely one of the best cap couplers out there from Sansui, fully on par with a restored 505 or 555a that I own as well. It has the voicing of the 777a with a really nice low end, and great mid detail. Where the "5xx's" are accentuated around the mid- to high bass, the 800 goes for the mid- to high mid - and it has a better stereo perspective...

So I call it the poor man's 777a - as a great compliment.

In the thread I had to do a bit of tweaking to get the higher pitched voicing delicate and soft, and used film caps/Silmics in the signal and film bypasses on the couplers - but so worth it. It's a sleeper, punching way above its weight in perceived power.

Excellent. I love my 777. Listening to the Mark Knopfler Record Store Day release on it now. Such good tone! Looking forward to this 800 and to see if I can get it going. Thanks for the reply!

 

[petesui]

Finally! A real life in-person local score five minutes from home! A cosmetically near mint 5000A with all original documentation including the original Sansui-branded FM antenna. It belonged to the seller's grandparents who bought it new so, essentially a well cared for one owner unit. Given my infectious Sansui newbie enthusiasm, she was excited that it would have a new life in my collection, and sold it to me for $50 less than I offered! Again, a breath of fresh air to transact in person. July 1969. Pretty stoked.

 

[Sansuiman]

Well, that came together nicely. Looks like one bulb out under the bank of pushbuttons, a pretty easy fix. Quite the bonus to have all the original docs with it, too. I'll recount here once again that my obsession with Sansui began in 1978 when my dad brought home a second hand 5000 to replace a perished Lafayette receiver that was unrepairable. Thus, the 5000 and it's variants will always have sentimental value to me. Good to see you scored such a nice one. I'd verify which driver boards are installed before running it too much, lest you blow a channel. If it was already fitted with 6013's, you are probably ok.

 

[petesui]

Well, that came together nicely. Looks like one bulb out under the bank of pushbuttons, a pretty easy fix. Quite the bonus to have all the original docs with it, too. I'll recount here once again that my obsession with Sansui began in 1978 when my dad brought home a second hand 5000 to replace a perished Lafayette receiver that was unrepairable. Thus, the 5000 and it's variants will always have sentimental value to me. Good to see you scored such a nice one. I'd verify which driver boards are installed before running it too much, lest you blow a channel. If it was already fitted with 6013's, you are probably ok.

Yes, it certainly did. I noticed that bulb was out, too. There was some SP-2000 and Dual literature as well, but those units were long gone. She also had one of those little Pioneer reverberation amps that I probably could've had for $10, but I didn't know what I'd do with it and exercised some restraint. I haven't put any speakers to it yet and was just about to take a peak under the hood. I'll report back on those driver boards. Again, thanks for your comments - very helpful in my decision making process. Beats flying blind on the internet which is my usual methodology.

 

[Sansuiman]

For $10 I would've taken the reverb amp, it's hard to go wrong for less than lunch money. It's a spring tank internally (similar to those used in some guitar amps). Now, these are easily overused to the point of making music unlistenable, but if just a small touch is applied to the "dry" source material, it can be a pleasant enough effect. I've numerous Sansui reverb amps here, used very sparingly to periodically give just a little depth to some records and CD's that sound too flat in my listening space. Modern DSP might do a better job (though that is debatable) but I kind of like the old reverbs with their light displays.

 

[petesui]

I may have been the first person to take the bonnet off since it was buttoned up at the factory in the Summer of '69. It appears untouched and I've drawn original 1040s. TR803/804 both look particularly unwell to me. Leaky and corroded with some brown goop on the top and sides. C806 shows signs of opening on top. Otherwise, everything else topside appears to be intact and dusty. There are two spare lamps in a little bracket mounted to the chassis. Pretty neat. Looks like I'll be reading up on these driver boards to understand what needs to be done and whether to mod or replace with 6013s.

 

[Sansuiman]

I'd say it's a good candidate to mod the 1040 boards, since they (surprisingly) haven't blow yet. Typically, blown driver cards were seen as justification to just do the retrofit back in the day, when Sansui still provided service kits to authorized service stations with instructions to install the 6013 boards on a unit in for one or both channels blown.

Affinity for Artifacts on eBay (member Eastpoint here on AK) sells a prepacked parts kit to do the 1040 board mod. Once modded, the 1040 are as stable as the 6013 would be, and will save you some $. FWIW, I don't believe the 6013 boards change the sound in any always versus the originals , so that isn't a concern if you do decide to replace the boards outright.

 

[petesui]

I'd say it's a good candidate to mod the 1040 boards, since they (surprisingly) haven't blow yet. Typically, blown driver cards were seen as justification to just do the retrofit back in the day, when Sansui still provided service kits to authorized service stations with instructions to install the 6013 boards on a unit in for one or both channels blown.

Affinity for Artifacts on eBay (member Eastpoint here on AK) sells a prepacked parts kit to do the 1040 board mod. Once modded, the 1040 are as stable as the 6013 would be, and will save you some $. FWIW, I don't believe the 6013 boards change the sound in any always versus the originals , so that isn't a concern if you do decide to replace the boards outright.

Thank you. I see his kits. Very reasonable for both boards and with full instructions. I assume the recommendation is not to tempt fate and play this unit any further as these drivers are on borrowed time. He's clear in his listing that the viability of the mod kit is contingent upon working boards that haven't blown yet. I'll likely order the kit, but take it to a pro. I don't have any experience yet. I don't think this nice example is the place to start.

 

[Sansuiman]

I wouldn't run it based on the fact it is original and unmolested, and for the visible issues you already noted on the driver boards. The big problem with these involved runaway bias, which would blow the channel (driver and outputs,.sometimes the big caps as well) when it occurred. Word is that a few even caught fire during catastrophic failure. That's what the mod to the 1040 boards (and eventual issuance of the revised boards) was done to address. Once the 1040 board got smoked (and many did) it was deemed less work to replace them with new boards than to rebuild them.

Sansui effectively extended the warranty on the 5000 series models by many years by continuing to supply 6013 board kits to service shops to install at no charge when one came in with blown 1040 board(s), as it was such a frequent and well known failure back in the day. Obviously, they wanted to minimize the labor costs to repair these since they were picking up the tab, so installing new boards made more sense than paying techs a bunch of labor time to rebuild and mod 1040 boards.

 

[petesui]

I ordered the 1040 kit from @EastPoint. I went back under the hood with a soft brush and the vacuum and she cleaned up very nicely. Removed the bottom cover as well and everything on the underside looks to be in good original shape. Gave the exterior a good wipe down too and I have to say, she is completely unblemished. Mint cosmetic condition.

 

[Sansuiman]

What happened to the tuning and signal meters? They were illuminated I the previous pics, now they aren't.

 

[petesui]

Good question. I didn't even notice. Yes, they're out now. Could I have done that with a soft brush? Will investigate. Sigh.

 

[Sansuiman]

May have bumped them just enough to break the 55 year old filaments. These ancient bulbs can be pretty touchy.

 

[petesui]

Must have. The good news is that the meters still work. I threw the FM antenna on and tuned in a station. Everything was working under the glass.