Philco J-1824 DW - need some help please

[hypecat]

Hello,
I'm new here and a newbie to this type of repair all together, that said, here goes.
I picked up a Philco J-1824 DW, record player only.

First, the record player sometimes works and some times doesn't. I believe its a Glaser-Steers rebranded with Philco. It looks brand new. When I have removed it from the cabinet to look at it, then re-installed it, it sometimes works. When it doesn't work, the symptom is it kind of starts, the tone arm moves, then moves back, then nothing, there appears to be no power. If I switch the input to "tuner" the power comes on and when I connect RCA jacks in the back it will play music from that input. I think, for what that's worth, is it has something to do with the small wires related to the tone arm?

Second, I am having trouble with one of the external speakers, I believe I can hear the tweeter, but can't hear the mid-range speaker. I have switched the speakers right and left, and the right side always works, so it's either the wire or something with the left side of the amp I think.

Third, I think mid-woofer should be loader, you can hear/feel the bass, but with the external speakers disconnected, you can't make out much. Maybe that is normal?

Any advice, direction, etc, would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
I have attached some photos.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[gadget73]

my usual canned answer for any record changer problems is sticky lube. I have never fooled with a G-S changer, but at this point I'm comfortable saying its old enough that any lube it had is probably more sticky than lubey at this point in time.


when you say you switched the speakers L to R, exactly what do you mean? You connected the speaker physically on the left to the right side output? And when you say the right side always works, do you mean the right channel on the amplifier, or the speaker physically on the right?

this is a bit of an odd duck. Looks like two mono amplifiers in one cabinet rather than the usual single stereo amp. Appears that whichever one sits on the floor of the cabinet has had new power supply caps at least. Normally there would be a silver can where I see a couple of modern parts.

 

[hypecat]

View attachment 2038146 View attachment 2038148 This pertains to the record changer (I'm thinking I should have started different threads, but oh well)

The issue with the record changer is related to what I believe is the automatic record size sensor. I have it working for now. I attached two pictures, the first is the changer without the platter. The second is the part that I believe senses the record size so the tone arm drops at the proper location. When you turn it on, the plate slides in the direction of the arrow, a part the moves out, when the record drops, that part gets pushed back to a certain degree.... I hope that makes sense.View attachment 2038146 View attachment 2038148

 

[hypecat]

As for the speakers, funny thing, when I turn the balance to the right I get no sound (the mid-woofer also goes quiet). When I turn it to the left, the external speaker and the mid-woofer work. I switched the plugs for the external speakers at the amp, the problem is with the right channel, not the speaker or speaker wire.

As for the amps, the amp mounted to the bottom of the cabinet looks to only drive the "Reverbaphonic" unit on the back of the cabinet. Attached are two pictures:

 

[hypecat]

I do have the schematic, although it's about the size of a post card and hard to read. I ordered a service manual from eBay, we'll see if that is any better.
There appear to be three transformers on the speaker amp, two small ones and a larger one. The larger one looks to have three connectors, black, green and orange. The placard inside the cabinet shows this, I've also attached two other pictures:

 

[gadget73]

ok, reverb amp makes sense.

Also must be a 3 channel rig. Those were somewhat common. can't quite read the schematic but it looks like 2 pairs of output tubes, plus the extra transformer. Signals common to both sides would end up running through the woofer, signals not common go to the left and right.

Is the right channel only out from the turntable or is it also dead when using the tuner input? If its just the table it might be cartridge wiring or cables to the turntable. Not sure if this is one of those rigs that needs the goofy out of phase cartridge or what. I know RCA made some oddballs like that.

 

[cademan]

Yup, 3 channel.

Since this is a phono only model, you can take a cd player or phone and connect them to the phono inputs to see if the amp is working or if it is in fact a bad wire in the tonearm or a bad cartridge.

 

[hypecat]

The right channel is out from the amp when I connect to the aux input as well... I do know it's a 1961 Philco J-1824 DW "Miss America"

 

[hypecat]

Update, the right channel does have sound from the tweeter but not the mid-range, it's very faint, but I can hear the tweeter. Still, if I put the balance to the right, the mid-woofer goes silent.

 

[gadget73]

still sounds like its not amplifying enough to talk about. Looking closer it appears that its got Sovtek tubes in it, so someone has been here before. Could be a lot of things but swapping tubes side to side is the simple thing to try. Just swap the L channel tubes to the R channel one at a time. If nothing there you may need to pull it and do some further checks.

 

[hypecat]

Gadget,

Yes, as I understand it, the unit was gone over in 2017. As for swapping the tubes, I think these are the ones to swap (see pictures):

 

[gadget73]

Those are the output tubes, yes. There should also be a pair of smaller tubes, probably those 12ax7 in front of the output tubes. There may be others as well, can't see the whole layout.

If there happens to be a 12ax7 that is used for both L&R, swap it with the one in the reverb tank.

 

[hypecat]

Gadget,

Maybe this will help:

 

[gadget73]

ok, thats about what I'd expect. The tubes that are marked LH and RH can be swapped channel to channel one at a time to see if anything changes. If no joy there, try swapping the 1st audio tube with one of the matrix tubes in the reverb amp. If none of that does any good, it'll have to come out of the cabinet for some poking around underneath. If one of those tubes is going to make a difference, gut tells me its going to be one of the 12ax7 but I have been wrong enough times to not guarantee that.

'course it may also just be a crusty tube socket and simply moving them around will magically fix all this. I've had that happen too.

 

[hypecat]

So first red, second yellow, third green? Now here comes the newbie question, do I just rock them out? The ones in red will be hard to reach (make that damn near impossible) with the amp in the cabinet...

 

[cademan]

Just FYI, any tube with the same number can be swapped out with that same tube. Just don't put a 6BQ5 in a 12AX7 socket!

 

[gadget73]

They all pull straight out.

and you have them matched up right.

If you can't pull them with the amp in place, pull it out of the cabinet. Those tubes need to go in fairly straight or you may bend the pins or damage the socket.

 

[hypecat]

OK, I will try it in the cabinet, but we will see, there is about an inch of clearance between the top of the tube and the cabinet.... Actually seeing what you are doing is awful difficult... I'll report back!

 

[macgolf]

Nice console hypecat. I believe this is the 1st 1961 Philco I've seen documented here. Thank you for sharing your adventure. I wish I could be of help with your restoration but you're in good hands with those who are helping you. I have a H series and when time permits, would enjoy seeing more photos of your satellite speakers to see how they compare.

 

[Tom Bavis]

I likely have the schematics if you need them.