I dusted off the old 212 put a new belt and a grado black on. I am running it through a vintage sansui au-517 and a pair of old klipsch heresy speakers. I like the old turntable but I really don't know how it ranks compared to current offerings in the 300-400 range from music hall, pro-ject and rega. In addition, i am considering an automatic table just to avoid some hassle. I see Denon has a reasonably priced automatic in the 300f. I could switch the grado over from the philips. Tough question but do you all think I would be losing anything with the denon, would current offerings from rega,pro-ject and music hall be worth sticking with manual operation?
philips 212 vs ?
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nickrobotron
una bella tazza di caffe
Keep the 212!
I don't think you will best the 212 with any of the above in that price range. The 212 is awesome. I have a Grado Red on mine currently. It's a nice match. I also like Shures and the Ortofon OM series on it too. The high compliance deal of the century is an ADC xlmII on ebay for about $65. I bought two of them and they are VERY nice!
Thanks, it is tough to hold thirty year old technology up to current offerings and make a judgement. Somewhere in the back of my mind I keep thinking that I am missing something. Bear in mind the Philips spent so many years in storage that the original belt melted into goo. This turntable probably has 5-8 years use and 20 plus storage. It is near mint condition even the cool touch lights work! How good of a cartridge do you think it can stand? Maybe a better use of money than a new table?
Balifly
Listening
Good point. I would be in the 200 range give or take. I have horns so I don't need anything bright.
I am getting a volume related hum out of the table now with the grado. I checked my wires switched the plug grounded everything and it continues. becomes audible at about 30% volume and gets worse as volume increases.
I am going to hook the table up to my outlaw 2150 tomorrow and see if it disappears, if not it is in the table/cartridge and not the old sansui.
I am getting a volume related hum out of the table now with the grado. I checked my wires switched the plug grounded everything and it continues. becomes audible at about 30% volume and gets worse as volume increases.
I am going to hook the table up to my outlaw 2150 tomorrow and see if it disappears, if not it is in the table/cartridge and not the old sansui.
nickrobotron
una bella tazza di caffe
I think that might be the best idea. Put a really great Shure on it. Or with the amount you were going to put down for a new table, you could consider buying a nice vintage table. $300 could get you a great vintage table that would stomp all over the new budget hi-fi stuff.
Balifly
Listening
There is a sticky at the top of the opening page concerning "Grado hum".:yes:
With a budget like yours, there is a wide range of selections available.
There will be lots of good suggestions coming your way in the next few days.
It will be fun deciding on what cartridge to get !!!
With a budget like yours, there is a wide range of selections available.
There will be lots of good suggestions coming your way in the next few days.
It will be fun deciding on what cartridge to get !!!
I installed an Ortofon M15 special and its the best combo yet, AT cartridges also sound great on the 212 but bright, did not like the way the M97XE sounded in this table.
Funny I have also been eying some TT's in the $300-$400 range like the music hall, pro-ject and rega not knowing how they will compare to my 212.
Funny I have also been eying some TT's in the $300-$400 range like the music hall, pro-ject and rega not knowing how they will compare to my 212.
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boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Not to be a smartass - okay, maybe a little - but perhaps what you're missing is that new $300 to $400 turntables, and probably any turntable made today, is built using 30 year old or older technology.
John
voltcontrol
Fizheuer Zieheuer
Decide on a budget for the cartridge first.
I'd keep the 212 and get a decent cart for it too (if you want to try something different than the Grado) considering budget. :thmbsp:
Not really, there's lots of guys out there with Thorens TD-124s and Garrards that have no problem with even older tech.
I just bought another one two weeks ago to rehab. They're a fine table and would serve many very well.
Fernando
Active Member
Physical beauty contributes to the enjoyment of audio gear and the Philips has a classic European look. I was sorry when their newer Japanese lookalikes came out in the late 70s to replace the 312. I think the older GA202 may have been one of the most beautiful audio products ever.
Fernando
Fernando
melofelo
Addicted Member
i really dig the looks of the little philips 212... bought one recently in mint condition but still haven't listened to it yet...
i'm still trying to figure out a way to dampen the suspension...:scratch2:
I was thinking of shooting some silicone goop, oil or grease in the springs to see if it cures the wild bounce..
I even thought of using a wool tassle from a scarf and pulling it through the spring coil to see if it helps...
hm wool tassle plus silicone oil..now there's a thought...
...
only real weak spot i can see on the 212 though is the tonearm's vertical pivot design...far too much side to side movement allowed in what is really a critical part of any tonearm.
i'm still trying to figure out a way to dampen the suspension...:scratch2:
I was thinking of shooting some silicone goop, oil or grease in the springs to see if it cures the wild bounce..
I even thought of using a wool tassle from a scarf and pulling it through the spring coil to see if it helps...
hm wool tassle plus silicone oil..now there's a thought...
...
only real weak spot i can see on the 212 though is the tonearm's vertical pivot design...far too much side to side movement allowed in what is really a critical part of any tonearm.
voltcontrol
Fizheuer Zieheuer
If you get around to comparingf them, I'm curious to see which will win. :thmbsp:
I found a Phillips 887 in great shape a year ago and still haven't listened to it because I don't think it can out-Dual my 1229.
It may be closer than you think. They are so different that I would think that they each offer different strengths. This type of variety offers the opportunity to enjoy the subtle shades of a recording as they appear in a different light. Always a good thing. :yes:
Fernando
Active Member
This photograph clearly shows a trait of Philips arms that led me to choose a 1229 over Philips GA212 in 1973. Notice the plane of the two vertical pivot points perpendicular to the arm tube. This causes a slight side to side rocking as the cartridge moves up and down on a warped record. This plane should be at an angle similar to the offset angle of the head. Compare to a 1229, Thorens, SME or other quality arm. Admittedly the error is very small in practice but it took very little to make it right. This flaw is also present in the 202/212/312 series.
Fernando
Fernando
melofelo
Addicted Member
a few quite capable straight tonearms used a vertical bearing assembly that was intentionally at 90 degrees to the armtube..
including a few jelco arms in the 80's...
perhaps the 'flaw' was actually an intentional compromise between rigidity , resonance and geometry ?...:scratch2:
including a few jelco arms in the 80's...
perhaps the 'flaw' was actually an intentional compromise between rigidity , resonance and geometry ?...:scratch2:
Brian
An Old Geezer
I'd suggest not trying to dampen the suspension but getting it onto a solid shelf. The arm supports the ADC XLM Super which was a b*tch of a cartridge for most arms to work well with. We used to mount Grados in the 212 and never had a hum concern so I'd not be too worried about it unless the newer Grados are more suseptible to inducing hum.