Phono input without phono section?
- Thread starter WillVT
- Start date
malden
Lunatic Member
In my decades of collecting audio gear, I have never once thought to ask if an amp with a phono input actually had a built-in phono preamp
Honestly why would you?
troika
Super Member
My Creek amp came that way. There is an optional photo stage card, but without it, that selection is just like any other line level input. I used an external phono stage and plugged it into that line, so that the selector would be labeled right.
Later, I acquired the internal stage from Creek, installed it and sold my external stage.
I recall, at the time, someone here investing quite a few replies informing me that both Mike Creek and I were wrong and that it didn't work that way.
Later, I acquired the internal stage from Creek, installed it and sold my external stage.
I recall, at the time, someone here investing quite a few replies informing me that both Mike Creek and I were wrong and that it didn't work that way.
malden
Lunatic Member
I was responding to post #40
charles 1973
Super Member
The simple way around that is to do what Bryston did with my B100SST Integrated amp. Label the input Aux/Phono. You know what you have.
The Phono Pre-amp Module, Like the DAC Module is optional on B100. Despite not having the Module it's still a phono input and labeled correctly, as my Rega Fono Mrk 5 MM phono stage is connected to it.
The Phono Pre-amp Module, Like the DAC Module is optional on B100. Despite not having the Module it's still a phono input and labeled correctly, as my Rega Fono Mrk 5 MM phono stage is connected to it.
troika
Super Member
I know. My phrasing was off I guess? Why would anyone think they needed to confirm there was actually a functioning phono section if there are inputs and knob selection labeled “phono” . Would someone ask if the balance pots are installed? If the outlets on the back are actually hot.
The manufacturer could easily have turned this into a positive.
“We conveniently labeled an input and a knob selection PHONO instead of AUX II for those that plan to add a phono preamp and turntable”
Cleve
Super Member
I've never seen this before - anytime I see phono inputs or 'phono' on the selector dial of an amp, I assume the ability to plug turntable with a standard magnetic cartridge into it - without additional pre-amplification.
Honestly, the manufacturer should have labeled it "Aux 2" or similar - that's a bit deceptive IMO.
Honestly, the manufacturer should have labeled it "Aux 2" or similar - that's a bit deceptive IMO.
Yes, it kinda is. As long as the owner doesn't go crazy trying to figure out why his turntable isn't working.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
You two are showing your appreciation of vintage audio gear with a limited evaluation of more modern gear.
In addition to no phono input or selector switch for phono on many chunks of electronics in the late 90s-early this century there was also gear that was labeled phono with an input, gnd connection and well, no phono amp installed but optionally available. Others had the front panel indication but all inputs were high level. There were other ways of having a phono front panel switch position and no ability to amplify an MM or LOMC in the unit.
These were odd times as manufacturers reduced manufacturing costs frequently removing tone controls and tape monitor functions, too, just trying to sell product. All while trying to figure out what the consumer would buy.
Before the end of the record industry as the primary source for a stereo there were very few separate phono amplifiers. Sure there were SUTs and pre-preamplifiers for LOMC to get a signal up to the level of an MM phono input but few that went to line level. Now these complete phono amps are everywhere.
Just changing times and seemingly odd steps by the manufacturers.
That is depended on if you choose as an option when ordering from the factory to pay to have a phono section in the preamp. Inorder to reduce the number of variations of chassis, face plates, and selector knobs they need to stock they just produce them all the same, but if you don't choose to pay for the phono section, you will get a unit that has a selector switch, labeling and RCA connectors in some cases but that location has no internal wiring for anything it is just a dead no active location.
An example is my Cary SL98 tube preamps, one has the phono section option, so it is a working option. My other one doesn't have the option. It has the labeling on the front face plate; the knob and switch will move to that spot but there are no tubes for that option, and nothing will work as that selection is dead. The holes are all knocked out for the tubes and RCA locations the same as the units that do have a working phono section, but they have plugged the holes with blanks.
I also have built a kit that uses the same manufacturing practices. They punch and label holes for phono RCA jacks, and the front switch has a label for a phono, but what you do with it is your choice. Finding room for a phono section board inside isn't tough as much of the insides of many of these preamps is just dead air, and phono sections can be made small.
An example is my Cary SL98 tube preamps, one has the phono section option, so it is a working option. My other one doesn't have the option. It has the labeling on the front face plate; the knob and switch will move to that spot but there are no tubes for that option, and nothing will work as that selection is dead. The holes are all knocked out for the tubes and RCA locations the same as the units that do have a working phono section, but they have plugged the holes with blanks.
I also have built a kit that uses the same manufacturing practices. They punch and label holes for phono RCA jacks, and the front switch has a label for a phono, but what you do with it is your choice. Finding room for a phono section board inside isn't tough as much of the insides of many of these preamps is just dead air, and phono sections can be made small.
Oops I see this was already covered by @Blue Shadow.
Depends on the level and price piont, some upper end units have good phono amps in them. I have one but it is only good for MM carts. I have though some day I might source some good step-up transformers and find a spot to mount them either inside the chassis or on the exterior and put a selector switch where I can add a MC section as well.
whoaru99
Epic Member
I usually do a bit of independent research into what I'm thinking about buying before I buy it.
It's saved me more than once. Most recently with some power amps that had optional integral crossovers. Seller said they could be removed if not wanted. While true in itself, it wasn't the whole story.
Yes, they could be removed, but then you had to install the standard/direct input modules. He didn't mention that part, only found out through my research. Passed on the deal because upon question seller didn't have the standard input modules and they're long discontinued so generally not found for sale separately.
Last edited:
For sure, especially novices and those of us lacking all technical skills, knowing what you’re buying is paramount. But having to question things like inputs being dummies or inaccurate wouldn’t occur to me.
A previous poster pointed out that apparently there is lots of gear that is built like that and us older folks are unaware. For sure I was unaware.
Would a receiver have an FM dial but no built in tuner?
whoaru99
Epic Member
I wouldn't agree that's an apples to apple question.
But, then again, maybe I'm just not as sensitive to that sort of nomenclature thing with many years of HT experience where inputs and source selection names usually can be renamed and or reassigned.
It's, IMO, no win situation. Call it Aux In and someone would ask how to hook up their TT.
But, then again, maybe I'm just not as sensitive to that sort of nomenclature thing with many years of HT experience where inputs and source selection names usually can be renamed and or reassigned.
It's, IMO, no win situation. Call it Aux In and someone would ask how to hook up their TT.