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Phono Pre: ART DJPRE II vs. DB Systems DB-8

Way to similar

The album cut is not optimal ..not saying they are not good...they both sound sort of live, unmixed ..like a studio where the whole band and singers where in the same room...so both sound good, but not good for sampling.

I prefer to use cuts that use a variety of sound and is mixed because you can focus on what parts might sound different...for example, could not detect much bass in the cut so hard to say is one clear, one muddy...in both, the guitars sounded live and hard to differentiate.

So I cant say I lean toward one or the other...sorry.,..

The cat stevens would be better
 
arcorob said:
The album cut is not optimal ..not saying they are not good...they both sound sort of live, unmixed ..like a studio where the whole band and singers where in the same room...so both sound good, but not good for sampling.

I prefer to use cuts that use a variety of sound and is mixed because you can focus on what parts might sound different...for example, could not detect much bass in the cut so hard to say is one clear, one muddy...in both, the guitars sounded live and hard to differentiate.

So I cant say I lean toward one or the other...sorry.,..

The cat stevens would be better
Click to expand...

Number 2 sounds better to my ears.
 
arcorob said:
The album cut is not optimal ..not saying they are not good...they both sound sort of live, unmixed ..like a studio where the whole band and singers where in the same room...so both sound good, but not good for sampling.

I prefer to use cuts that use a variety of sound and is mixed because you can focus on what parts might sound different...for example, could not detect much bass in the cut so hard to say is one clear, one muddy...in both, the guitars sounded live and hard to differentiate.

So I cant say I lean toward one or the other...sorry.,..

The cat stevens would be better
Click to expand...

Hey Rob, just listen to your drops of Captain fantastic.

I would say Capt 02 has way more "Punch", the spot where I could really feel the difference is time index 1:50 and onward. Focus on the drums, the main snare beat is really focused and firm. In fact I'd say the whole percussion section is quite defined and well spaced out.
Elton's vocals float above this quite well too. Highs are crisp and not harsh

So I'm going to say Capt02 is the better sounding, I won't claim that it is the battery or not :)
 
arcorob said:
The album cut is not optimal ..not saying they are not good...they both sound sort of live, unmixed ..like a studio where the whole band and singers where in the same room...so both sound good, but not good for sampling.

I prefer to use cuts that use a variety of sound and is mixed because you can focus on what parts might sound different...for example, could not detect much bass in the cut so hard to say is one clear, one muddy...in both, the guitars sounded live and hard to differentiate.

So I cant say I lean toward one or the other...sorry.,..

The cat stevens would be better
Click to expand...

I think your Capt01 sounds fine, but in Capt02, the battery blows the soundstage up to full size and makes it sound more like a factory CD would. Am I right? Well... you shouldn't tell me yet.

If mine are too close to pick a favorite, I'll take it as a compliment. My goal was to try and get the very best I could out of each power source, without favoring either. I do have a favorite, however, and it's the battery.

Actually, I believe the perfect tone to match the factory CD would be somewhere in between my two samples. How the heck do I pull that off?... LOL!
 
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royphil345 said:
I think your Capt01 sounds fine, but in Capt02, the battery blows the soundstage up to full size and makes it sound more like a factory CD would. Am I right? Well... you shouldn't tell me yet.

If mine are too close to pick a favorite, I'll take it as a compliment. My goal was to try and get the very best I could out of each power source, without favoring either. I do have a favorite, however, and it's the battery.
Click to expand...

royphil, I think your Number 2 sounds better as well.
 
steelglam said:
I don't know about that. Sure, the needle drops were done on one computer and played back on different ones, but six different people with six different sound cards thought the same file(s) were the best, and the other same file(s) were the worst. That seems to me to say that the computer/sound card doesn't matter much...even if we were all hearing the files slightly differently than each other, we all preferred the same ones and disliked the same ones.
Click to expand...

If people have their recording and playback systems set up for reasonably flat frequency response, we shouldn't have an issue. I use the built-in sound on my computer to record. There's a bit of very low level noise, but I think it does a pretty great job of accurately capturing what I put in otherwise. I stopped trying to use ready-made 3.5mm plug to RCA adapter cables and that made a big difference. I'm now using one of those hard 3.5mm to RCA jack adapters and my interconnects of choice, made with Mogami 2549.
 
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steelglam said:
I don't know about that. Sure, the needle drops were done on one computer and played back on different ones, but six different people with six different sound cards thought the same file(s) were the best, and the other same file(s) were the worst. That seems to me to say that the computer/sound card doesn't matter much...even if we were all hearing the files slightly differently than each other, we all preferred the same ones and disliked the same ones.
Click to expand...

Good point. I wonder why what you heard direct if different from the digital copy.
 
Not to be a spoiler

But there is a trend growing..LOL

People are picking #2 and clearly articulating why...

All settings were identical (no gain change, etc.) ..I wanted to be sure all was equal...

and number two is the wall wart...what the heck is going on here....LOL

At home, we all like the battery sound better..conclusive.

yet, for needle drops, the wall wart wins...

We are missing something here....
 
arcorob said:
But there is a trend growing..LOL

People are picking #2 and clearly articulating why...

All settings were identical (no gain change, etc.) ..I wanted to be sure all was equal...

and number two is the wall wart...what the heck is going on here....LOL

At home, we all like the battery sound better..conclusive.

yet, for needle drops, the wall wart wins...

We are missing something here....
Click to expand...

Well now I don't know what to think :nutz:
 
HA! You're kiddin' me!

It might be because you reversed your polarity. I thought I liked it at first, but then it started sounding too dead in the highs to me and I went back to center pin positive.

I agree! :nutz: Ow... my brain!

Both of my participants picked the battery and you said it sounded about the same as the wall wart. At least I didn't waste my battery money... lol
 
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Roy of your two clips it was hard for me to pick a definite winner, I think I'll go with 2 as well, it was a little less rolled off on the highs, and the guitar solo had a bit more of a kick to it.
 
jkilla said:
Roy of your two clips it was hard for me to pick a definite winner, I think I'll go with 2 as well, it was a little less rolled off on the highs, and the guitar solo had a bit more of a kick to it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Roy's clips were closer in quality than Rob's, but I still preferred Roy's number 2 slightly more. It sounded a bit more open and not as strident on some of the more dynamic parts.
 
I'm fighting off a cold right now and my head is too stuffy to do any super critical listening/tweaking/whatever, but I feel compelled to do a needle drop :) Maybe in a day or two
 
Maybe the best thing to do for the comparison of the ART to the DB Systems (and Muddywaters said he might also throw in the Musical Fidelity) is to use two separate needle drops for the ART: the wall wart and the 12V battery. Just to make sure the two main preferences are covered. There's a possibility that the differences between the ART, DB Systems, and Musical Fidelity will be starker than the differences among the different ART power supplies.

That's my suggestion, but at the end of the day, I will defer to those that are doing the needle drops to compare the different phono stages since they may or may not have a battery for the ART. And even more importantly, they have already generously offered their time and effort, so they should do whatever they feel is best or whatever they have time to do. You guys are great!!
 
That's 3 out of 3 participants who picked the battery on mine. LOL! This is nutz... It's always a different preference and it's always unanimous.
 
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Making us nuts...BUT

If on our own systems we prefer the battery, then that says it all.

We all seemed to agree that the other adjustable warts were not optimal so that eliminates that...

I do know I like the battery better here..the difference is quite tangible...but at least we have options...LOL
 
In your prefence test

royphil345 said:
HA! You're kiddin' me!

It might be because you reversed your polarity. I thought I liked it at first, but then it started sounding too dead in the highs to me and I went back to center pin positive.

I agree! :nutz: Ow... my brain!

Both of my participants picked the battery and you said it sounded about the same as the wall wart. At least I didn't waste my battery money... lol
Click to expand...

were you battery positive center pin ? If so I may switch back to that...NUTS
 
Just to muddy the waters...

Here are the new clips I promised. These were recorded tonight. The center pin is reversed versus the initial clips (meaning barrel is +, center pin is - except of course for the stock wall wart). These aren't normalized and the recording gain was never touched/changed, (and gain wasn't touched in the previous samples either). I'm unclear why some have mentioned changing the gain since the same cart/record/phono stage were used in my case I didn't need to. The battery was fully charged and was checked tonight showing 12.74-12.75v. No eq or tone controls are involved.

I am using balanced cables out of my tape out on the preamp into a RME Babyface USB, yes I know a stupid name but a very good prosumer recording device. RME is know for their converters and the rock solid stability of their drivers. I'm running a quad core laptop. I have worked conscientiously to maintain the integrity of the files.

These are the four different psu and the batt options I provided before in random order.

#1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xcz8dbq4dmj93d/1_2nd.wav

#2
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2sew395zuxfm4lh/2_2nd.wav

#3
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6crmgbxrt8eu8vf/3_2nd.wav

#4
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7e1zmg1e6ijo8t/4_2nd.wav

#5
https://www.dropbox.com/s/amirrljay8o0i4s/5_2nd.wav

It sounds like from the conversation that the Art has a decent power conversion system and thus the uncertainty shown by many in their preferences from the other clips no matter which psu or battery is used. I'll catch up on the conversation tomorrow morning.
 
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