jkilla
Out of Touch
and I don't believe it's a case of Monkey-See-Monkey-Do
We all picked wallwart on Muddy's and Rob's clips, and we all picked The battery on Roy's.
At least we're having fun while doing it. Thanks for the contributions guys
Phono Pre: ART DJPRE II vs. DB Systems DB-8
- Thread starter steelglam
- Start date
and I don't believe it's a case of Monkey-See-Monkey-Do
We all picked wallwart on Muddy's and Rob's clips, and we all picked The battery on Roy's.
At least we're having fun while doing it. Thanks for the contributions guys
royphil345
Well-Known Member
Yeah... I listened to my clips again and the outer barrel positive clip sounds more closed in than my stock wall wart clip. I would choose my stock wall wart clip over it. So, that's probably what happened with your comparison. Sorry I ever suggested reversing the polarity. I was SO wrong!
arcorob
Addicted Member
Okay ...this is tough
I like 2,3 and 5 the best with 2,5 I think being in the 1 and 2 spots respectively...1 and 4 seemed to have muddier bass and perhaps muddier highs...
This is through the laptop with headphone but would like to listen through my system to be sure...2 3 and 5 were so subtle as to be almost indistinguishable. I had to key on bass, guitar picking and piano to assess ..also the live sound of the background chorus..
I like 2,3 and 5 the best with 2,5 I think being in the 1 and 2 spots respectively...1 and 4 seemed to have muddier bass and perhaps muddier highs...
This is through the laptop with headphone but would like to listen through my system to be sure...2 3 and 5 were so subtle as to be almost indistinguishable. I had to key on bass, guitar picking and piano to assess ..also the live sound of the background chorus..
arcorob
Addicted Member
Which
I recorded reverse which is probably why wall wart and DC sounded so close on mine..I bet if I go back to the original config it would make a difference...
Yeah... I listened to my clips again and the outer barrel positive clip sounds more closed in than my stock wall wart clip. I would choose my stock wall wart clip over it. So, that's probably what happened with your comparison. Sorry I ever suggested reversing the polarity. I was SO wrong!
I recorded reverse which is probably why wall wart and DC sounded so close on mine..I bet if I go back to the original config it would make a difference...
beatcomber
AK Member
In my own system, outer barrel positive sounds too tubby and bloated.
Kind of like the Keystone Cops on polarity...
What I found most interesting in the first test I provided not one person picked the battery. :scratch2:
2nd test hasn't been responded to I guess due to backtracking on the previous latest discovery of polarity possibilities?
This third test is provided to have the same settings as the second but the polarity is back to the tip + and barrel -
btw the Art volume throughout has been left at +2 and capacitance is 100pf and the subsonic off
Without further ado:
3rd Round
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lhzdy04lk47e20/1_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dk9c4762snbboj/2_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzfvddc0eypw1c4/3_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajfylgpsuirdoyo/4_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/opysm4yt0r99i07/5_3rd.wav
What I found most interesting in the first test I provided not one person picked the battery. :scratch2:
2nd test hasn't been responded to I guess due to backtracking on the previous latest discovery of polarity possibilities?
This third test is provided to have the same settings as the second but the polarity is back to the tip + and barrel -
btw the Art volume throughout has been left at +2 and capacitance is 100pf and the subsonic off
Without further ado:
3rd Round
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0lhzdy04lk47e20/1_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dk9c4762snbboj/2_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzfvddc0eypw1c4/3_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajfylgpsuirdoyo/4_3rd.wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/opysm4yt0r99i07/5_3rd.wav
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gusten
Addicted Member
I have listened a little differently this time with round 2. I have first tried to see if I constantly could pick one preferred without knowing which one I listened to. I couldn´t really, but could sometimes pick #2 as a little softer in the treble.
So, no real winner for me.
gusten
So, no real winner for me.
gusten
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royphil345
Well-Known Member
I'm ignoring set #2 because I'm pretty sure center pin positive is correct now. Reversing polarity doesn't sound as good in my system and we no longer preferred the battery in Arcorob's system after he reversed polarity, when we all liked it better before. Beatcomber added his system sounded tubby and bloated with the polarity reversed. That was my exact experience and also what I heard in Arcorob's sample that made me think it couldn't be the battery.
I got too tired for any more comparisons last night, but I just downloaded set #3 and I'll let them stew awhile.
This has been fun and you guys inspired me to finally get my Denon DL-110 set up properly. I think it's sounding pretty good now and the frequency response is mostly flat at the standard 47k loading, except for a slight harsh or "ringing" coloration. What do you want from the cheapest moving coil on the market?... lol. It's not all bad. It can make certain types of music sound more involving. Nice detail for 100 bucks. I still have very low hours on it and it may smooth out a bit more.
I got too tired for any more comparisons last night, but I just downloaded set #3 and I'll let them stew awhile.
This has been fun and you guys inspired me to finally get my Denon DL-110 set up properly. I think it's sounding pretty good now and the frequency response is mostly flat at the standard 47k loading, except for a slight harsh or "ringing" coloration. What do you want from the cheapest moving coil on the market?... lol. It's not all bad. It can make certain types of music sound more involving. Nice detail for 100 bucks. I still have very low hours on it and it may smooth out a bit more.
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I think 2 and 5 sound the best and are very close to each other. The resolution on 2 may be a bit better than 5.
I will listen to the third round later. Don't have time right now.
I am purposely not reading the other responses in the last two pages of the thread so as to not bias my opinion.
Thanks much again, Mudddywaters!
need more takers on the samples in both test 2 & 3
Thanks to arcorob, gusten and steelglam for stepping up on the second test. I hope others will do so on both the 2nd and 3rd file sets. Since the Art doesn't specify polarity should it matter? Maybe Catman or others might comment on the design of the Art's internal power handling. I think it's cool the design allows for either mode makes it flexible and prevents disasters with hooking the power up.
I will start recording some of the contestants this afternoon which don't have the battery/psu option and see how the responses go on the files posted.
Later
Thanks to arcorob, gusten and steelglam for stepping up on the second test. I hope others will do so on both the 2nd and 3rd file sets. Since the Art doesn't specify polarity should it matter? Maybe Catman or others might comment on the design of the Art's internal power handling. I think it's cool the design allows for either mode makes it flexible and prevents disasters with hooking the power up.
I will start recording some of the contestants this afternoon which don't have the battery/psu option and see how the responses go on the files posted.
Later
beatcomber
AK Member
I had the same harshness/ringing with my DL-160 prior to adding the fluid dampener, so I think that is a resonance/mismatch issue.
arcorob
Addicted Member
I am working on file set 3
Pretty tough one...so far narrowed down (I THINK ) to 2, 3 and 4..but still checking...
Pretty tough one...so far narrowed down (I THINK ) to 2, 3 and 4..but still checking...
bsujeep
Go Boise State!!!
I am heading out of town and just gave a cursory listen to the samples, I have not weighed in on this but have been following it out of curiosity. I have done the battery trick with the TC-750 and found improvement. I just want to add this comment about the previous group. I think something may have been amiss in ART1 to ART5 as those were very difficult to listen to for me on my system, however this last group of 1_3rd to 5_3rd are very listenable. Just an observation, keep up the fun in testing. 
Bill
Bill
royphil345
Well-Known Member
Very tough... For set 3, I would have to choose track 2 as my fave and 5 as a runner up.
I apologize for skipping set 2, but I know in my heart center pin positive is the way to go... and your 5-way comparisons are a little more homework than I generally like to do... lol
I apologize for skipping set 2, but I know in my heart center pin positive is the way to go... and your 5-way comparisons are a little more homework than I generally like to do... lol
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royphil345
Well-Known Member
Nothing really serious. It's making me happy. I think it's a $100 cartridge issue, personally...lol. It gets a lot right for the price. I want to get me one of those Grados with the 8MZ stylus like you have. I thought that sounded very smooth, yet revealing at the same time.
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seminole54
AK Member
If you can load the Denon down and give it at least 50hrs, then it will become much more than a $100 cartridge. But again it doesn't compete to me with my Grado 8MZ body and stylus or even the G1 body and 8MZ stylus. Just my opinion and how far you need to load the Denon down depends on the rest of you system in particular the speakers and whether tube or SS amps and preamps.
royphil345
Well-Known Member
I was really just nit picking. I'm like that... I really don't think I'd change the loading. The frequency response is sounding pretty flat to me as is, after some tweaking. Those bright sounding Janis Joplin tracks I ripped were originally for myself and they were intended to be torture tracks to see if the DL-110 could pull them off. I thought it did pretty well, actually and I expect it will smooth out a bit further with some more hours on it. I'm probably at about 10 or less.
I still want to add one of those Grados to my collection. My only previous Grado experience was with a Grado Prestige Red and I didn't really care for it. I think the Red is a particularly weak part of their lineup. It starts to sound a little leaner than their lower-priced cartridges, but doesn't have much detail. It's like the definition of bland. The reviews on the Needle Doctor site seem to agree with me. Next time I will choose my Grado more wisely!
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seminole54
AK Member
If you don't want to have to load the Grado down either, then you need to look for one of the 475ohm bodies. That would be the Z or ZF series or one of the newer bodies that are also 475ohms. I have a Z1 and a ZF1 and they are both fine with the 8MZ at 47k. The higher 700ohm bodies I was running at 35K, but after talking to Marcmorin, who recommended 22K I made up another set of loading plugs today with the closest set of resistors I had lying around which gave me 24k and I have to admit it is better.
royphil345
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the info! I'm going to copy and paste and hold onto this. I really do want to give one of these a shot someday.