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Phono vs. CD output level.

JJCalvillo

JJCalvillo

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
I have to remember to turn down the volume if I start playing CDs after LPs. Have a Grado Blue or Green on a Denon DP-30L going into a Marantz 2215B. On the CD side I have a Marantz CD-67SE to a Schiit Mimby, to the Marantz Aux. Everything comes out of Canton Karat 300s.

So is the signal difference a fact of life or is there anything you can do to boost the signal from the table?

I don't think it's a setup problem or equipment not functioning correctly.
 
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This is normal. CD players and DACs tend to have a very high output while turntable cartridge/preamp combinations generally produce an overall lower level signal.

It's good practice to turn down the volume control before changing inputs anyway.

Or, if you wanted to, you could lower the CD signal using line attenuators.

61MRh488mUL._SL1400_.jpg
 
Thanks for the response. I figured it was the nature of the beast, but hoped there was something to boost phono. I like the CD signal, I wish the phono signal would emulate it's cousin.
 
Yes a high output phono cartridge is the way to go. Most Shure carts have a higher output.
 
willyrover said:
To boost phono signal you would have to experiment with higher output cartridges, and/or external preamps with selectable or higher gain.
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Just remember if you do that, you may run into issues if your gear isn't made for such high output cartridges, especially with certain records. Many phono preamps these days aren't made to take high output cartridges (I don't mean 5mv, more like 7MV-10MV).
 
iLUVanalog said:
You may want to try the Nagaoka MP-110. Nice sounding MM cartridge with 5mV of output, which is a lot more output than most.
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5MV is nothing.

Tonar has a DJ cart you can buy right now with 8MV of output.

Shure has a recently discontinued model with over 9MV of output - you can still get it if you look around.

Goldring 1000 and 2000 series are spec'd at 6.5MV.

Some Ortofon 2Ms are spec'd at 5.5MV but actually measure hotter, like 8MV+.
 
It really depends entirely on the amount of gain in the phone stage/pre and cart choice. Back in my early audio days (pre CD mind you) the output from a tuner or tape machine was higher than that from my phono stage. Now I have a separate phono pre and the output is equivalent to any of my other sources, give or take a few DB.
 
JJCalvillo said:
Thanks for the response. I figured it was the nature of the beast, but hoped there was something to boost phono. I like the CD signal, I wish the phono signal would emulate it's cousin.
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The Carver C-1 preamps I've restored have specific components (i.e. resistors) that the factory manual called out and said "hey, if you want more gain, swap resistors X and Y with Z ohms". This was to help buyers with widely varying output levels coming from gear many different kinds and brands of gear to set up the C-1 for a better fit. I had to do that where one guy had a very hot CD (output way more than 2V) and that high voltage signal was bleeding into other circuits in the C-1.

I'm sure there are modern external phono stages that allow you to adjust the gain. Normal designs boost the incoming signal from the turntable by ~35 dB for MM and ~70 dB for MC. You should be able to find an external unit that does more or can do more gain with a switch, knob or resistor change. An example would be (not a GREAT example) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AJR482/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_2t3yCbBY3EHPX
 
With an external phono pre-amp you can mitigate the difference by setting the preferred output level on that component.
 
Yamaki said:
With an external phono pre-amp you can mitigate the difference by setting the preferred output level on that component.
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My "problem" is that the 2215B has AM, FM, FM Stereo, Phono & Aux on it and the Aux is currently occupied by the CD/Schiit. Preamp would have to go in the Aux, correct?
 
JamVal said:
I don't have to worry about that, my wife reminds me, and it's not a friendly reminder.
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Mine doesn't say anything if she like sthe playlist. She's downstairs so by the time it gets to her the volume is fine.
 
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willyrover said:
This is normal. CD players and DACs tend to have a very high output while turntable cartridge/preamp combinations generally produce an overall lower level signal.

It's good practice to turn down the volume control before changing inputs anyway.

Or, if you wanted to, you could lower the CD signal using line attenuators.

View attachment 1417707
Click to expand...
I used a pair of these with one CD player I own. It did help.
 
Some of the better, or I might say some preamps have small gain control knobs on them for each input so that you can balance them all, one in particular that I know if is, the Mcintosh C28.
 
JJCalvillo said:
My "problem" is that the 2215B has AM, FM, FM Stereo, Phono & Aux on it and the Aux is currently occupied by the CD/Schiit. Preamp would have to go in the Aux, correct?
Click to expand...
Isn't there also a tape loop? Usually in that era there was at least an AUX input and another for tape.
 
For me, the difference between two CDs can be as large as the difference between phono and CD, so what good is trying to get every input the same?

The signal from your turntable is already boosted - you just have to attenuate it less. By turning the volume knob clockwise. :)

Yes, it is a fact of life, and old fogeys like me are totally used to it. It only bothers those new to vinyl, for the most part. But so often we could use a sticky thread to link to, for the near-daily ask.
 
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