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Piano Music induces Snare-Drum like Resonant sounds

FriedChicken

FriedChicken

Active Member
This is kind of far out there but something I noticed...

I have a Yamaha RX-A810 in "Pure Direct" mode playing lossless FLAC audio from USB --> Yamaha M-65 --> Polk Audio RTI10 towers.

I'm noticing this really unusual phenomenon when listening to piano music. A really accurate description is a "snare-drum" like resonance that I'm hearing. In fact, for one recording I dismissed it as exactly that: I'm hearing the resonance of a snare-drum. Unfortunately it's appeared again, and I suspect it might have something to do with the amplifier.

Imagine you have a big grand piano, and next to it you place a snare-drum. When a piano key or chord is struck loudly, you'll hear a very quiet resonance on the snare drum, as the tympanum vibrates and the snare wires make their noise. The louder the note/chord is struck the more this resonance happens (concurrently but short).

This is exactly what I'm hearing. I'm not sure if something like this could emerge as a result of the electronics, or if it's purely the recording.

Here is where I first heard it (skip to 10:45):
 
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FriedChicken said:
This is kind of far out there but something I noticed...

I have a Yamaha RX-A810 in "Pure Direct" mode playing lossless FLAC audio from USB --> Yamaha M-65 --> Polk Audio RTI10 towers.

I'm noticing this really unusual phenomenon when listening to piano music. A really accurate description is a "snare-drum" like resonance that I'm hearing. In fact, for one recording I dismissed it as exactly that: I'm hearing the resonance of a snare-drum. Unfortunately it's appeared again, and I suspect it might have something to do with the amplifier.

Imagine you have a big grand piano, and next to it you place a snare-drum. When a piano key or chord is struck loudly, you'll hear a very quiet resonance on the snare drum, as the tympanum vibrates and the snare wires make their noise. The louder the note/chord is struck the more this resonance happens (concurrently but short).

This is exactly what I'm hearing. I'm not sure if something like this could emerge as a result of the electronics, or if it's purely the recording.

Here is where I first heard it (skip to 10:45):
Click to expand...
From the description, to me it sounds like a bad tweeter... voice coil rubbing against the pole piece... heard many them do that when overheated, over driven. Piano will bring it out... might not be that but I would suspect. Do both channels do it?
 
FriedChicken said:
This is kind of far out there but something I noticed...

I have a Yamaha RX-A810 in "Pure Direct" mode playing lossless FLAC audio from USB --> Yamaha M-65 --> Polk Audio RTI10 towers.

I'm noticing this really unusual phenomenon when listening to piano music. A really accurate description is a "snare-drum" like resonance that I'm hearing. In fact, for one recording I dismissed it as exactly that: I'm hearing the resonance of a snare-drum. Unfortunately it's appeared again, and I suspect it might have something to do with the amplifier.

Imagine you have a big grand piano, and next to it you place a snare-drum. When a piano key or chord is struck loudly, you'll hear a very quiet resonance on the snare drum, as the tympanum vibrates and the snare wires make their noise. The louder the note/chord is struck the more this resonance happens (concurrently but short).

This is exactly what I'm hearing. I'm not sure if something like this could emerge as a result of the electronics, or if it's purely the recording.

Here is where I first heard it (skip to 10:45):
Click to expand...
The only "anomaly" I heard was an occasional "striker slap" (or bounce) coming from the piano itself from nearly simultaneous key hits. Like his fingers were slightly out of phase on the chords, or the piano needs adjusted. An artifact of some kind. So I would say it's in the recording.
 
I agree that it sounds like a speaker issue, not an amp issue. One of the tinsel leads on the midrange dome of my ADS L710 speaker would cause this kind of distortion, but only with piano at certain frequencies. Just had to move it until it went away.
 
bberkom said:
I agree that it sounds like a speaker issue, not an amp issue. One of the tinsel leads on the midrange dome of my ADS L710 speaker would cause this kind of distortion, but only with piano at certain frequencies. Just had to move it until it went away.
Click to expand...
is it on the low notes?
 
John James said:
Do we know for certain there was no snare drum present?

(Stretch maybe?) :)
Click to expand...

This was my first thought as well, until I noticed it in other recordings.

It’s definitely on both speakers. I guess I can check the tinsel lead pretty easily.
Piano is very difficult for speakers to reproduce. My logitech z-4 computer speakers have no chance!

[edit]

Actually it must be in the recording. I just heard it on my computer speakers as well (when it wasn’t distorting).

It’s very faint, but it’s definitely there. Weird that it appeared on totally different piano recordings. Maybe it’s something in inherent to a certain type of microphone. On the youtube thing I posted it’s audible on the note at 13:01.
 
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FriedChicken said:
This was my first thought as well, until I noticed it in other recordings.

It’s definitely on both speakers. I guess I can check the tinsel lead pretty easily.
Piano is very difficult for speakers to reproduce. My logitech z-4 computer speakers have no chance!

[edit]

Actually it must be in the recording. I just heard it on my computer speakers as well (when it wasn’t distorting).

It’s very faint, but it’s definitely there. Weird that it appeared on totally different piano recordings. Maybe it’s something in inherent to a certain type of microphone. On the youtube thing I posted it’s audible on the note at 13:01.
Click to expand...
If it's on both channels almost for sure rule out the speakers. Starting to 'sound' like it is on the recording.
 
spicer said:
If it's on both channels almost for sure rule out the speakers. Starting to 'sound' like it is on the recording.
Click to expand...

Wow; I’m retarded. I didn’t make that tiny connection in logic. Yes, that does rule out the speakers... unless there’s something inherently wrong to both of them.

It’s incredible how much scrutiny I use when listening to the stereo system vs my dinky computer speakers which have hisses and pops and crackles all over the place I never even considered. In fact that small blip is only barely audible on the computer speakers but stands out immensely on the theater setup.
 
I don't hear that playing the youtube you posted through my computer to my Genelecs. Do you have headphones?

Ok, listening to this track on Tidal. I do hear some things that may be what you describe. Although i would call them typical piano noises. They are very, very subtle though. If they are not subtle then I'd say it's not the recording.
 
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Asmodeus2112 said:
No, sorry can't say that I hear that. Maybe a bit at the start of the note at 13:06...
Click to expand...

Turn it up real loud and listen intently on what follows immediately after the note is played.

When I do this on my z-4’s there’s so much other distortion not present on my RTI10’s, but I know what to listen for so I can pick it out
 
FriedChicken said:
It sounds like a pppsssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Click to expand...
I've heard something like what I imagine from your description from certain digital recordings, like an artifact introduced somewhere in the chain of equipment... or less than perfect CDs that require more than the normal amount of error correction. Rare though...
 
FriedChicken said:
I will NOT go analog, I will NOT go analog, I will NOT go analog.....
Click to expand...
Analog is ssssmmmmooooothththth without any finite frequency "stepping". Although digital has come a looooong way since it's inception, making it "smooth" as analog takes lots of filtering and very high bit rates. And even then, you're still limited by the slew rate of an amplifier. Thankfully the human brain has it's own smoothing filters. :p
 
Trying to remember who stated he could hear something like a frying pan being struck in time with the music on digital recordings when it became the default medium.
Neal Young?
 
Well, these recordings sound fine to me. Have you other guys tried to reproduce the issue before declaring it an effect of digital?
 
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