Pickering XV-15 cartridge fans and users, spout for a while!

[wualta]

...Maybe user two really gave his needle a vigorous break-in, ... and it's too broken in. Ha, ha!

Yes, that stylus's suspension must've gone.. A Break Too Far.

Seriously, I'm with boreas on this one. It does sound like something's not right with kcblair's stylus. Just to see what's what, I ordered two more examples. Meanwhile, I gave my sample a quick spin on The Church LP Starfish, just to check it, and also to maintain my air of ironic detachment.

I too never use the Pickering or Stanton brushes, fwiw.

Kinky!

and Crimpy!

I remember watching "Kinky and Crimpy" cartoons in my PJs, sitting on the floor in front of the old Philco Saturday mornings back in the '50s. Happy days...

 

[bangsezmax]

I've made this point before -- the place that quality control seems to suffer most with the aftermarket styli is in the suspension. It's not that the suspensions themselves are bad, it's that they aren't always set in the tubes properly. I have gently moved the cantilevers back and forth in the tube and found this made an appreciable difference in how they tracked because it put the suspension in the sweet spot (where it was supposed to be in the first place). The interesting part of the equation is that the output level may change because the magnet (or "iron" in this case) moves along with the cantilever and suspension.

It's a $17 stylus. Don't be afraid to play with it. I've learned a lot about cantilevers, suspensions and magnets how all of it works together just by messing around.

 

[wualta]

BSM: I've used your ideas about relocating cantis in trying to improve my Acutex 412, and I agree: things can be done to fix suspensions. But what would kcblair do to repair a collapsing suspension, assuming he'd be willing to dig in for educational purposes? What's a good way to shore up a rubber pivot that's lost the will to live? Especially one that's not easy to get to, like the Pickering's?

 

[kcblair]

Yes, I'm willing to play with the suspension. How do I move it in and out ? In the mean time, I'll order another, this is a great sounding cartridge from the past. Thanks.

 

[boreas]

Yes, I'm willing to play with the suspension. How do I move it in and out ? In the mean time, I'll order another, this is a great sounding cartridge from the past. Thanks.

What's being suggested is sliding the cantilever in and out of the suspension doughnut to change the fulcrum point. This can "tune" a stylus to eliminate or reduce sibilance and mistracking but, if the suspension itself is compromised - which is what I suspect - changing the fulcrum point won't really help.

John

 

[kcblair]

What's being suggested is sliding the cantilever in and out of the suspension doughnut to change the fulcrum point. This can "tune" a stylus to eliminate or reduce sibilance and mistracking but, if the suspension itself is compromised - which is what I suspect - changing the fulcrum point won't really help.

John

Thanks John, what sort of tool do I use ?

 

[boreas]

Thanks John, what sort of tool do I use ?

Fingernails?

Perhaps Max or Walt will chime in since I've never done it and they have. I will say, however, that when using any sort of tool you run the risk of crushing or kinking the cantilever so caution is the rule.

John

 

[boreas]

Kinky!

John

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ce-zC_n8E

 

[kcblair]

Okay guys, just heard back from Gary VOM. Apparently, he was having a n operation and out of commission for a few days.

The official word is, the 4606-DEX tracking range is .5-1.25. So it could in theory sag at 1.3g. The stylus at 1.5 tracking, may be out of variance, which might be a good thing??????

Gary will do a little more research, when he gets time, on the manufacturing variances.

In the mean time, I won't go over 1.25 or stay where it sounds best, which currently is 1.0g.

I will also put away my tweezers, until I order another stylus . I did move the cantilever, back & forth, while waiting to hear from you guys .

Any thoughts ?

 

[boreas]

Okay guys, just heard back from Gary VOM. Apparently, he was having a n operation and out of commission for a few days.

The official word is, the 4606-DEX tracking range is .5-1.25. So it could in theory sag at 1.3g. The stylus at 1.5 tracking, may be out of variance, which might be a good thing??????

Gary will do a little more research, when he gets time, on the manufacturing variances.

In the mean time, I won't go over 1.25 or stay where it sounds best, which currently is 1.0g.

I will also put away my tweezers, until I order another stylus . I did move the cantilever, back & forth, while waiting to hear from you guys .

Any thoughts ?

Yes, I hope Gary's doing okay.

My only other thoughts are that you may have changed the resonance frequency and voicing of the stylus by moving (if you did move) the fulcrum point of the cantilever.

Also, by changing the length of your "lever" (the cantilever), you may have effected the optimal VTF. Increasing length of the cantilever forward of the fulcrum point would place greater stress on the suspension bushing and cause greater deflection at a given VTF. Decreasing it would do the reverse.

Have you noted any changes since playing with the cantilever?

John

 

[boreas]

The official word is, the 4606-DEX tracking range is .5-1.25.

Yup! Here it is from JICO's domestic site.

https://translate.google.com/transl...ickering&submit=%E6%A4%9C%E7%B4%A2&edit-text=

Click on the D1200 link. It should take you to a translated page for it. I'm assuming, of course, that the JICO D1200 is also the EVG 4606-DEX.

So it could in theory sag at 1.3g.

I'm still thinking that 0.05g over the maximum shouldn't produce the effects you're seeing.

John

 

[kcblair]

Yes, I hope Gary's doing okay.

My only other thoughts are that you may have changed the resonance frequency and voicing of the stylus by moving (if you did move) the fulcrum point of the cantilever.

Also, by changing the length of your "lever" (the cantilever), you may have effected the optimal VTF. Increasing length of the cantilever forward of the fulcrum point would place greater stress on the suspension bushing and cause greater deflection at a given VTF. Decreasing it would do the reverse.

Have you noted any changes since playing with the cantilever?

John

Hello John, No , I have not played the stylus. I only moved the cantilever in and out slight ,to see how delicate it was, so I don't know if I actually moved it from it's original position. I'll test it tomorrow and get back. Thanks Ken

 

[wualta]

Ken, Pickering used a tie wire to locate the cantilever, and JICO may have copied that, but they may have tried to get along without it, and if they did, they would have used an adhesive. Unless you broke that wire (and they're pretty strong), or pushed so hard you broke the adhesive bond (you would've felt it let go), you couldn't have permanently moved the cantilever along the fore-and-aft axis, so don't worry. Unless of course the whole suspension is being moved! Your idea of playing it where it sounds best, even if that happens to be 1.0g, sounds wise to me. When Gary gets back on his feet, we'll see what's what.

When the time comes, we'll introduce you to the sophisticated tool we use to poke cantilevers in and out and massage suspensions: the round wooden toothpick. Audiophile quality, cryogenically treated, of course.

Yesterday I dialed my 4606-DEX back to 1.25g and it still sounded fine today playing some Don Henley on the Onkyo CP-1030F with a Pickering TL-4 p-mount body in a Yamaha p-mount headshell for straight pivoted arms. Sounds great. But also note that there's no "sag" at 1.5g, even though it's outside the recommended VTF range.
.

 

[jhtstone]

I'm convinced...

Have had an XV-15 gold body setting for about 2 years. I bought the tt just to get the cartridge but the stylus was worn out. Ordered the EV. Little money to find out if the cartridge is even any good.

In the meantime, just finished listening to the Grado Blue for the first time.

(Insert hourglass here)

 

[SA-708]

Since the TL series has been brought up, here's some photos. I've got examples in two different finishes, both a matte steel and a glossy black. All are labeled Pickering on the top, but with no other label for the model number.

Both of my needles are DTL-2, of the "tall" variety. These are also DTL styli with the "wide" stylus grip as was typical with the XV-15 cartridges. These "tall" stylus grips are not as tall as the Stanton grips (which extend up over the top of the cartridge), and have no hole for a brush. My pair of DTL-2 styli were bought from Garage 'a Records, whom I miss.

I also have a Stanton L747S cartridge, with a pair of D74S needles, and have swapped the needles between the brands with no issues.

 

[illinoisteve]

This thread just gets more and more fascinating. And audiophile-grade toothpicks are something I understand!

 

[SA-708]

For some reason I can only attach one photo at a time on Safari on my iPad.

 

[wualta]

Here's my XSP-4004 (equivalent to Stanton's L847S) sporting the moving-iron D200 stylus it came with.. --which, the seller claimed when asked, was NOS, tested and... working. No magnets? Working? Huh?

Well, not in this body. I did test it just to make absolutely certain. In the meantime, it sounds great (though with a twinge of brightness) with another "wrong" stylus, the 4822-DE with the red dot, though it's not a stylus with topnotch tracking ability like the original!

(..and how do you leave useful feedback for a seller who's talking obvious nonsense but appears to believe it?)

 

[needforspeed]

I've used it many years, And on my second JICO SAS analog stylus to show just how long. It's used on my refurbed Technics SL1600. The guys in the shop told me it's one of the best combos they've had come through for awhile. I've tried most of the Shure's, But for helping to mellow out screeching guitars, And shrill vocals, It's the way to go.

 

[pdm4606]

XV-15 re-equalize?....

I use an XV-15 1200e with a choice of styli. Since I rebuilt my TT setup and built my 18" long tonearm the highs have been way too high and loud. I tried a bunch of things like more tracking force, less tracking force, vertical tracking angle adjustment, mass increase up and down, and a couple of others. It still sounds good but highs still too much. I finally built a dual potentiometer setup to put more load on the output. That did the trick. I tune it in until it sounds reasonable and away I go. All sounds good now.
I must adjust for nearly every LP.
I use a 100k audio taper dual pot.
I finally am happy with the setup and continue to enjoy it.
See my thread on "long tonearm time" for photos.

Paul