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Pilot SA-232...Can it rock?

MadcapLaughs

MadcapLaughs

Active Member
Hey all,

I have a local option to pick up a Pilot SA 232 amp, apparently recapped and ready to go. I have been hounding the forums to gather what i can on it, and a lot of superlatives, but i need more specifics....Im just a little nervous about a 17wpc EL84 amp, as I have never had such a low powered amp. I am running Altec 890c Boleros currently, I am aware of their high efficiency specs, and have used them with 7868 and 7591 tube amps before, but am I really giving that much power up to the 232's EL 84? I have a feeling it will be a solid match, but I just wanted to get your thoughts on how well this amp will bring out rock and occasionally metal, Sabbath, later 80s metal and electronica as well. I also have an equal desire to bring out the best in my jazz LPs and vintage country albums as well, not just a headbanger here.

Should I maybe hold out for an EL34 based amp given my music preference, or should I just stick with my 7868s? I keep hearing so much praise about this EL84 sound, I just didnt know if it was mainly coming from the Dave Brubeck crowd. Lol.


Thanks!
 
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Realistically its probably more in the 12-15 watt range, basically half what you'd expect from a 7591 amp. Thats only 3 db of difference, not as much as you might think. With efficient speakers thats plenty, though I know nothing about your specific speaks. I've got comparably powered EL84 amps and they do fine. My normal runners are good for 100 watts each, but honestly I can run a 12 watt amp in this room with the same speakers and its not an issue at all. Thats with Klipsch speakers that run I think 92 db efficiency.
 
Knowing the demands of Metal and Rock, I think you should look into at least an EL34 or 6l6GC type amp.
Even though those Bolero's are sweet, they will never pound out Metalica like Double Bass at loud levels. Also if your Bolero's have the Ultra
Fragile Multi cell 3000 Tweeters, you don't want to abuse them.
 
Ya these have the later more durable horn, i wouldn't dare get into a glass diaphragm type tweeter, thats asking for trouble. I know they probably cant handle an amazing amount of power, but honestly they have a tonal quality that is clear and bright really similar to like a, Klipsch forte or something like that, great mid- bass. But they are rated for like 40 or 50 continuous watts. But those specs could be bogus. Efficiency is prob 93db or so. I probably lean more into the hard rock and proto-metal, lots of prog rock King Crimson etc.

Maybe im heading down the wrong path with an EL84. I was also considering finding an Eico HF 87. that might have more power for that type of music.
 
MadcapLaughs said:
Im just a little nervous about a 17wpc EL84 amp, as I have never had such a low powered amp. . . . Should I maybe hold out for an EL34 based amp given my music preference, or should I just stick with my 7868s? I keep hearing so much praise about this EL84 sound.
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As Gadget said, the power difference is minimal.

It takes 10x the power to, subjectively, make it sound "twice as loud". Twice as much power only gets you an additional 3db. So a typical 7868 powered amp will play 3db louder than the EL84s. But, this assumes you're listening to the amp at full power, which I doubt. The difference between a 7868 and and a typical EL34 amp will be even less, perhaps 1db or 1.5db.

To hear what twice the wattage sounds like, just stand 1m (~39") closer to your speakers. Or, conversely, move 1m further away to simulate the volume level of the lower powered amp.

Of course, this assumes that the signal from your preamp stays the same. The lower powered amp can be turned up louder unless your preamp's volume control is maxed out, which I suspect is not the case.

Yes, EL84s / 6BQ5s are sweet and the Pilot 232 is one of the best. And, if you don't like it, you'll have no problem selling it, perhaps even at a profit since vintage gear appreciates in value.
 
Alright well I took the plunge and bought the sa 232 guys, higher power amps be damned (for now). I’ll report back on my experience, I didn’t exactly steal this amp, but it’s clean and recapped per the seller.

any ideas on other hi efficiency speakers that would pair well for more aggressive music choices with the little pilot? I do love the altecs, but I’d probably agree they couldnt handle the bass punishment no matter the amp. Sad though becuase their sonic qualities seem well suited to modern music. But the drivers may not agree with that.
 
Did you get it at a reasonable enough price that you can re-sell it and not lose anything if you don't like it? If so, you're in good shape.
 
MadcapLaughs said:
Alright well I took the plunge and bought the sa 232 guys, higher power amps be damned (for now). I’ll report back on my experience, I didn’t exactly steal this amp, but it’s clean and recapped per the seller.

any ideas on other hi efficiency speakers that would pair well for more aggressive music choices with the little pilot? I do love the altecs, but I’d probably agree they couldnt handle the bass punishment no matter the amp. Sad though becuase their sonic qualities seem well suited to modern music. But the drivers may not agree with that.
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The problem is higher-sensitivity speakers that pound out the bass generally are going to be much larger than the Boleros. Is that a constraint?
 
A pair of Altec valencia's can be quit wonderful with less than 10 watts, yes 3x the size of the Bolero's. Size does matter
 
There are many vintage EL84 amps to choose and most of them sound very nice, right ? Usually, they are of the warm and cuddly types, with enough detail and resolution to compete way above their prices. Then, there are a few distinctive EL-84 amps, which possess exceptionally detailed sonics, like the Pilot 232, regardless of which of the three 232 versions I have owned. The 232 is not your typical warm and cuddly PP EL84 amp. The mids and treble are exceptional, with no boomy bass, yet no lack of bass detail. The great opt iron and power tranny help this stereo amp to sound so exceptional, as does the paraphase phase inverter which lends a "fast" detailed sound. They do run hot, so consider a whisper fan behind/atop the amp. I used to run mine without the cages, plus the fan...Tube rolling the input and driver tubes will resolve "different" sonic signatures...Great tube amplifiers...

Good Luck to anyone with matching their 232 amp to synergistic speakers....
 
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Glad you're enjoying your SA-232. I was fortunate to pick up a Pilot console with a Model 500 EL84 amp. No 12AU7 or 16 ohm tap of the 232 but very capable just the same. My 500 also tends to run on the warm side, maybe the large iron. I do hope to one day find a 232 for comparison. I do enjoy my EL84/7189 amps and haven't felt the need to go with more power.
 
My SA232 is one of my favorite amps I’ve ever owned. It rivals the midrange and treble of my Marantz 8b at a fraction of the cost. It does run hot, so I have it running off a variac set at a slightly lower output voltage as my wall outlets are a bit hot. It runs all the time, for years without a hiccup.
I would say in a smaller room with efficient speakers it can definitely rock, but will never rattle the windows with down low bass control like a more powerful tube or SS amp can. But then again IMO you would give up some midrange magic, which is the tradeoff.
 
Ya I think id be in the same camp as Crestwood23, im willing to give up so ultra low bass for clarity and midrange...I've gone the other way with high powered solid state and big ADS speakers, and it of course rocked at loud volumes but I missed the midrange clarity.

Im going to give the pilot and altec boleros a shot in my moderate sized living room and see if they can handle the rock! Maybe down the line Klipsch Fortes or Cornawalls will end up in their place if you all think they would suite my music preferences better. I was lured by the descriptions of the 232's "speed" that other higher powered tube amps cant match.

For purely aesthetic reasons i despise the idea of using a sub to supplement bass. I also simply care more about mid-bass response which i feel speakers like altec can do well.

Ill be playing the SA-232 through my mcintosh C29 preamp. I may look into a tube preamp, but the C29 is pretty sweet as is.
 
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Just thinking out loud and I could be wrong here, Rock n Roll and "Rocking" wasn't around back in 1958/59 and the concept of Stereo imaging was in its nascent stage.

I'm wondering if the design of tube amplification was geared toward the music that was being produced at the time (Jazz, Folk, Doo Wop, Crooning etc)
 
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Only Pilot I have any experience with is the SA 260 using EL34s and it is a work horse of an amp, it never seems to get tiered. Nothing special done to it some new caps and simple stock but it just keeps on going and going. I have another pilot just remembered but it was a recievedr ran with EL84s its in closet storage. Came with some nice Bugles and Tele's was alone worth the price of the amp at the time. Was a bit brighter so I put it on the side carefully but for a later date. Good luck matching things up. I have used 10-12watts with a lucky match of speakers and have done well in the past.
 
The SA-260 circuit is actually similar to the SA-232 in basic design. Same paraphase inverter. I have an SA-260 that suffered a bit in it's prior life. I've done what I can to restore it to proper working shape but it bears some physical scars. Nice amp tho.
 
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