Now that's rather interesting. I was under the impressions from reading posts that people tend to find the HPM-900 to be smoother sounding. I find it odd that you would prefer the HPM-100 midrange in the HPM-900. Interesting for sure. :scratch2:
Pioneer HPM-100 successful crossover mod!
- Thread starter mattsd
- Start date
Now that's rather interesting. I was under the impressions from reading posts that people tend to find the HPM-900 to be smoother sounding. I find it odd that you would prefer the HPM-100 midrange in the HPM-900. Interesting for sure. :scratch2:
Ed in Tx
Super Member
No I have the stock 900 mids in the 900s; I have 100 tweeters in the 900s.
mattsd
Super Member
I have not tried that yet, but you just peaked my curiosity to the point of where I have to try it for myself. Darn you!
I'll post some results tomorrow, a little late here to test anything right now. Any good recommendations for songs with a well recorded piano?
piano is hard to reproduce...
pognoot
Well-Known Member
Yes. "Sullen Girl" by Fiona Apple or "Wild Horses" by Susan Boyle.
DCinDC
I'm here to fix it
Speaker killer!
That song will make a lot of revered speakers lift up their dress and show their dirty knickers!
Fantastic album!
mattsd
Super Member
Well, after giving a extensive listen to the recommendations above and a few other well recorded songs I found, I could not shake the feeling that given a slightly larger soundstage, the piano would sound as close to real as you could get with these speakers. The sound was exquisitely smooth and detailed, I heard no lack of response anywhere.
The drivers blend so evenly it sounds like a wall of sound, I cannot distinguish one driver from the other, other then the woofer's low end, but that's pretty obvious. If I went out and listened to it from outside the room it sounded at times like there was a real piano in there! I also noticed that I'm no longer having hearing fatigue with extended listening like I was before with the unmodded crossovers. The amp I was using was my recapped SX-1980.
The drivers blend so evenly it sounds like a wall of sound, I cannot distinguish one driver from the other, other then the woofer's low end, but that's pretty obvious. If I went out and listened to it from outside the room it sounded at times like there was a real piano in there! I also noticed that I'm no longer having hearing fatigue with extended listening like I was before with the unmodded crossovers. The amp I was using was my recapped SX-1980.
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mattsd
Super Member
Here are some photos of how I mounted the inductor, it does stick above the board a little but still fits through the hole in the cabinet with a little maneuvering. I used hot glue to mount it and it worked beautifully, nice tight hold that can be pulled off without damage.
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Big Tuna
Too Much Power!
Superb job there, Matt!
The Xover points of the HPM-100 are 3000Hz for mid, 4000Hz for tweeter, and 12kHz for the super tweeter. There definitely is alot of overlapping frequencies being carried out through the drivers, and that's the way they were designed, primarily to "rock the house" and that is what sold them. The pairs I listened to sounded nice, but exactly as you describe, harsh & shrill top end. I prefer to tune my speakers with a low-pass butterworth network for woofer, because when drivers overlap frequencies, that makes for a pretty colored/shrill output and will give me severe headaches. All you need to do is eliminate the overlapping frequencies between drivers, and you'll have a winner everytime. Each driver has it's limits and you need to test them to see where they roll off at at the bottom and up high.
The Xover points of the HPM-100 are 3000Hz for mid, 4000Hz for tweeter, and 12kHz for the super tweeter. There definitely is alot of overlapping frequencies being carried out through the drivers, and that's the way they were designed, primarily to "rock the house" and that is what sold them. The pairs I listened to sounded nice, but exactly as you describe, harsh & shrill top end. I prefer to tune my speakers with a low-pass butterworth network for woofer, because when drivers overlap frequencies, that makes for a pretty colored/shrill output and will give me severe headaches. All you need to do is eliminate the overlapping frequencies between drivers, and you'll have a winner everytime. Each driver has it's limits and you need to test them to see where they roll off at at the bottom and up high.
mattsd
Super Member
Have you removed the nut and bolt that goes through the center of it? If yes then I used a wedge (in this case a small flat blade screwdriver) and carefully drove it between the board and the inductor starting at the top, as long as you cut the glue with a razor knife it should come right up.
pognoot
Well-Known Member
Yes. Actually, I wound up cutting the bolt off - there was so much glue in the threads it was preventing the nut from turning freely.
I will keep working on this and hopefully it will start to break free. The Pioneer worker that put this crossover together went sh*t-crazy with the glue...
I will keep working on this and hopefully it will start to break free. The Pioneer worker that put this crossover together went sh*t-crazy with the glue...
videocast
New Member
I think I get it. Some people just enjoy tweaking on their stuff for the thrill of changing things and not totally screwing them up. I have been listening to my hpm100's in original condition for about 8 months now, and they sound just fine to me. best I ever had. Driven by an sx1280. If I read between the lines, I get the feeling that some guys think the new(to me) synthesized sound is the goal, and so I think why not sell the hpm's to someone that appreciates them and buy a nice set of Bose.
I mean that as no insult. just an opinion as I sit here listening to Aja by the Dan and glad to be living long enough to enjoy the clarity and cleanness of my system. this IS awesome....
I mean that as no insult. just an opinion as I sit here listening to Aja by the Dan and glad to be living long enough to enjoy the clarity and cleanness of my system. this IS awesome....
Rob.
Super Member
Some people here think they can make them sound better than Bart Locanthi can..
LoL
Im very happy from the sound these speakers produce. So clean and lively !
pognoot
Well-Known Member
The inductor was glued on from underneath with the excess pushing out forming a seal all the way around it. Trying to wedge a knife underneath is resulting in damage to the board itself.
I don't want to destroy this crossover trying to get it off. Bummer.. I was excited to try this mod out. :-(
I don't want to destroy this crossover trying to get it off. Bummer.. I was excited to try this mod out. :-(
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Big Tuna
Too Much Power!
Bart knew how to make them sound, sure, but that doesn't mean that they will satisfy the listening tastes of every person. Perhaps Bart was aiming for a specific group of listeners when he designed them? There is no "One sound fit's all" scenario.
mattsd
Super Member
I used the screwdriver as a wedge like a wood splitting wedge, driving it in a little at a time and it pried the inductor up enough so I could cut the glue all the way through with only a little temporary bending of the board.
videocast said:
I respect your opinion, but I am not looking for a "synthesized" sound, I just wanted to get rid of the harshness that was causing hearing fatigue for me after I listened to the speakers for longer then a half-hour, something that is no longer happening after the mod.
Rob. said:
I'm not exactly sure how to take this, I hope this is not an attempt to flame. If it's just a opinion I apologize. I was simply trying to improve them and make them listenable as extended listening periods were fatiguing (for me, YMMV) as I explained above. I totally agree with Big Tuna, he was likely aiming them for a certain audience, very likely the rock and roll one, which didn't care as much for sound quality and detail, they wanted loud volume output and lots of bass which these speakers do very well, unlike people who listen to music like classical or jazz who want more detail and quality. I never said he did a bad job, it's just there is room for improvement and IMO the modding accomplished that.
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