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Pioneer PL-10 Turntable. What's a fair price?

Treker

Treker

Super Member
I may be going to look at a Pioneer PL-10 turntable this evening, and was wondering what you all feel is s fair price range for this unit. I have not seen it yet, so I have no idea as to condition or if it includes a cartridge or not. It also appears that new belts are about $12 or so on fleabay, so I will need to take that into account if necessary.
 
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I bougt a similer pioneer Table (rondo 2000) from the dealer with a new belt, and a new Nagoaka MP11 Cartridge (it's $100), and no issues a little TLC wouldn't cure in 7.5/10 condition for $200. If it's in good working order it's worth what I paid IMO. There actually very good tables...mine sounds way better that it ought too with a very real sound to the music. I highly recomend a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge (replacing the MP11) for it's smooth sound, while retaining an impresive amount of detail. I believe the tables generally go for $50 - $100 depending on condition w/cartridge.
 
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Wow: I would guess much less -- especially needing a belt. Maybe I'm jaded but unless there was a heck of a cartridge in it, and the cosmetics were perfect, I would think less than fifty and probably less than 25.
There are lots of alternatives out there.
 
Nat said:
Wow: I would guess much less -- especially needing a belt. Maybe I'm jaded but unless there was a heck of a cartridge in it, and the cosmetics were perfect, I would think less than fifty and probably less than 25.
There are lots of alternatives out there.
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The one I looked at for $100 was perfect. looked like new with a good cartridge.

Much less than $50 for a working TT w/cartridge? Any working Table w/cartridge is worth that! A heck of a cartridge in my book list's at about $225 - $280 (Ortofon Blue & Nagoaka MP 200) and those barely qualify!
 
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charles 1973 said:
The one I looked at for $100 was perfect. looked like new with a good cartridge.

Much less than $50 for a working TT w/cartridge? Any working Table w/cartridge is worth that! A heck of a cartridge in my book list's at about $225 - $280 (Ortofon Blue & Nagoaka MP 200) and those barely qualify!
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I think I would have to agree with you that just about any decent working TT is worth $50, especially these days.

Well, in any case I ended up getting it for $25, which I thought was a pretty good price. It was the original owner who was selling it, and he said he had gotten 6 emails from his CL ad since he listed it this afternoon, which surprised the heck out of him. I just happened to be the guy that lived the closest and was able to make it over there this evening. The worst part was that he tied the sale to me also taking a BPC Pioneer receiver, as he wanted to get rid of everything at once. I only gave $20 for the receiver, and will try and move it over the weekend. It cleaned up pretty well, so I know I will get my $20 back, and will probably make money on it. Who knows, he may have done me a favor. If I can sell the receiver for $45, then the TT will end up being free. We'll see...

Back to the Pioneer PL-10. Overall it was in very good cosmetic shape. It was dirty, but it cleaned up really nicely. It looks almost new now, with the exception of some oxidation discoloration on the platter that wouldn't quite come out with 0000 steel wool. (You can see this in one of the photos.) I may try something a little more aggressive latter on, but for now the 0000 steel wool did help a lot. The woodgrain vinyl was dirty, but perfect. Not a nick, ding, or scratch on it that I could see. Based on the amount of brown grunge that came off the thing, I would guess that it spent some of its life in a smokers home, although it certainly didn't smell like it. The dust cover had no deep scratches in it, and polished up to nearly new condition with NOVUS Number 2 Plastic Polish. If you have never tried this stuff, you should. I have been using it for years on TT dust covers and other hard plastic surfaces, and it works miracles.

The TT also came with a Shure M91ED cartridge, which is nothing to write home about for certain. The cantilever was bent a bit to one side as well, so I did my best to bend it back a little straighter. It is better, but not perfect. The belt was still intact and is currently working. I didn't get out any of my known good vinyl, but did play a recent GW acquisition, which quite frankly sounded horrible. Don't know if I should blame the worn out vinyl, the worn out cartridge, or both. Probably both.

In any case, this is not going to be my main TT anyway. I mainly bought it with my 21 year old son in mind. He is in the process of putting together a nice but modest 2 channel vintage system based around a Marantz 2220 receiver we found for him a couple of weeks back, and I think this TT would be a nice fit into that system. I'll see if he likes it better than the Kenwood KD-47F he found on CL last weekend for $15. If not, I'll probably keep it around and play with it for a while, and then turn it on CL or eBay. Anyway, here are a few pics I took this evening after the clean up.

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Get a new stylus for the M91, it's really a nice sounding cartridge if you like their sound signature.
 
mythless said:
Get a new stylus for the M91, it's really a nice sounding cartridge if you like their sound signature.
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I was thinking about doing that. They are only like $28 or so at The Needle Doctor, and they are located right here in the Twin Cities, so I could even just go over and pick it up. Maybe after I sell the BPC Pioneer receiver that was part of this deal. We'll see.

I haven't listened to vinyl personally in quite a few years, so I'm not sure if I like the sound signature of the Shure cartridges or not. The last cart I used to listen to on my Denon DP-1200 TT before I packed it away years ago was an Ortofon OM-20. Any idea how they would compare?
 
That's a generic stylus on the M91ed, and the generics I've seen are not really comparable to the original stylus. A good sounding cartridge that used to be available all over the place for $14.95 (so no one I knew ever bought a new stylus, we just replaced the whole thing), but nowadays they seem to be fetching a lot more.
 
I certainly wouldn't trust a stylus that I straightened out myself. Perhaps best to junk the stylus and replace it. SAS if you're feeling flush, whatever else if you're not terribly concerned about it fooling an audiophile. Others will weigh in on the best / worst generics and whatnot. Set it up appropriately.

Might not be a bad plan to replace the belt anyway, the speed may be off if its worn, which you might not be aware of with no strobe or pitch adjustment.

I dunno how bad it looked when you brought it home, but it cleaned up well. You did pretty well for the price.
 
That's a beautifull table. I'd put a new stylis and even a belt for peace of mind, like some other's have suggested. That is a decent cartridge by all account's. You might want to remove the platter and turn the spindle with you fingers if you get bored, or are courious about the bearing's status. I can feel some rough spots on the bearing on mine, that I can't feel or hear when the platter is in place. I put some sewing machine oil on it, but didn't help. I don't think mine has been properly maintained. I'm hoping it will work it's way into the bearing more. Apparently It's fairly easy to service in any case.

If you choose a new cartridge you might want look at Nagoaka's MP110 (the replacement for the MP11) or the MP11 ($100). They both have an almost tube like smoothness that's well ballanced with detail/imaging that make nearly all of my used LP's sound Good. They are good match with our tonearms and can track with the best of them.
 
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The PL-10 was my first decent turntable. I bought mine new for $65 or something like that back in 1975 by mail order (list was $100).
 
I paid $95 for mine at Tech HiFi. Still have it, never use it, but seeing those pictures makes me think about it again. I haven't been able to sell it or give it away.
 
charles 1973 said:
That's a beautifull table. I'd put a new stylis and even a belt for peace of mind, like some other's have suggested. That is a decent cartridge by all account's. You might want to remove the platter and turn the spindle with you fingers if you get bored, or are courious about the bearing's status. I can feel some rough spots on the bearing on mine, that I can't feel or hear when the platter is in place. I put some sewing machine oil on it, but didn't help. I don't think mine has been properly maintained. I'm hoping it will work it's way into the bearing more. Apparently It's fairly easy to service in any case.

If you choose a new cartridge you might want look at Nagoaka's MP110 (the replacement for the MP11) or the MP11 ($100). They both have an almost tube like smoothness that's well ballanced with detail/imaging that make nearly all of my used LP's sound Good. They are good match with our tonearms and can track with the best of them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, after doing some research, I was very pleased to find that this cartridge is still pretty well thought of (even sought after), even though it was somewhere in the middle of Shure's line, and even originally priced as an entry level cartridge. Back in the day I never really used Shure cartridges, so I guess I was selling it a little short based on the fact that in my mind it was just an entry level cart.

At this point I am leaning towards going cheap and just getting a basic, generic, elliptical replacement stylus for this cartridge. I came across an older thread here on AK,

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=122689

in which a lot of nice things were said about the Pfanstiehl generic replacement stylus for this cartridge.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHURE-HI-TR...094?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a567578e

I might consider a genuine Shure replacement stylus, but I have not yet been able to find it at any the online retailers web sites I have looked at. (Which admittedly, is not all that many.) Even The Needle Doctor (which is located right here in my home town area) only lists a generic version of this stylus on their web site. Does anyone know where I might find a genuine Shure N91ED stylus? I'd kinda like to order a stylus today and get it started on its way.
 
audiodon said:
I paid $95 for mine at Tech HiFi. Still have it, never use it, but seeing those pictures makes me think about it again. I haven't been able to sell it or give it away.
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It really seems to be a very nice, if very basic, turntable. It is just designed to do what it needs to do, and no more. Not much to go wrong with it either, and it looks dead simple to repair if and when something did.
 
I like the PL-12D that I bought new back in 1974. To be honest, I didn't even know they made a PL-10.
 
Treker said:
What exactly is a SAS? Is it a brand of replacement stylus?
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Apologies, Treker..... Jico SAS. Jico is an aftermarket stylus provider in Japan.

The SAS (Super Analogue Stylus) is very well regarded around here, which led to my own decision to purchase one several months ago. Jico's aftermarket styli seem to be well regarded in general around here.

Since that purchase, the M91 stays on my turntable for the most part. Occasionally I'll switch back to the Ortofon OM-20 (which is excellent, and you're familiar with it) or Grado Black for a change. (I think) that the SAS stylus has better detail than even the OM-20. Whatever the case, the M91 seems to be the one that constantly goes back on the TT.

Here's the link for the SAS. http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1025

Jico also sells a non-SAS version of stylus for the M91. Here's the link for that. http://stylus.export-japan.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1024

You may be able to get either from NeedleDoctor as opposed to just from the factory in Japan. I know they distribute to LPGear.

Bit of a price difference, I know, I wouldn't have paid it myself but for the glowing references from those who have it. And I wouldn't suggest that I was let down, either.

I did get one of the Jico regular styli for a Shure M70 which is on a Kenwood TT very similar to your Pioneer in appearance. It seems to work well enough.

I hope I'm not sounding like a Jico salesman.
 
Sparky1116, thanks for the clarification. The Jico SAS stylus sounds interesting. If I really end up getting back into listening to vinyl quite a bit, I think I will consider it. It sounds like the Shure M91ED is a much better cartridge and platform for upgrades than I ever imagined it to be. I may even have to try it on my Denon DP-1200 TT when I get it back out of storage in a couple of weeks, with a new stylus installed of course.

Thanks again for the clarification.
 
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Well, I was able to sell the Pioneer VSX-504S receiver that ended up being tied to the original purchase of this turntable this afternoon on CL for $40. That means my total outlay for the turntable actually ended up being only $5.00! The guy really did end up doing me a favor by tying the sale of the turntable to the BPC Pioneer receiver after all!
 
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