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Pioneer PL-41 or PL-71

I've got a PL-41 with the stock head-shell and a DL-110 and it's sounds terrific. My main table. Took a little refurbishing but it's been care free ever since.
 
I love the look of the origional head-shell. I may just try the DL-110 in it. Thanks for all your help. I will see if I can pick up the PL-41 on Saturday
 
Squirrely said:
How is the (STOCK) head-shell? is it import to upgrade or will it make a difference when using a Denon 103?

Thanks for the spell check. Learning is life-long!
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I found it awkward and limiting as to cartridges which worked and aligned well with it, so I use Tonar shells with adjustable 2g and 4g weights. I've had Stanton 680, Denon DL-103, AT33-EV in the Tonars, with increasing musical bliss......the DL-103 will shock you, then after a while, get you to wondering what a higher level MC will do. Trust me, I've been there!:music:
 
I am running a Denon DL-103 on my Micro Seiki DD-40 and I love it. I run a Denon AU 310 step amplifier into an Audio Research SP-8. The Pioneer will be set up with a Fisher X-101-D integrated amplifier. It is also designed for MM carts. I wonder if I should use another step amp and an MC or if I should stay with MM. Moving magnet fits the time period of the gear, but there is so much detail available with the MC carts. Lots of choices. And then a Micro Seiki BL-51 comes on my radar. I am staying with the PL-41 though because it is local instead of having the Micro shipped and the Pioneer is in like new condition.

Do you think an MM would work better with the original headshell. I like the detail of the 103 so I imagine I should stay with MC carts at this point.

Wow, I am all over the place now. Sorry about the confusion.
 
Yes! Very! I spoke to the guy with the Pioneer and plan to pick it up tomorrow. Though the Micro Seiki is a very nice table I am passing on it because it is not local and I really want to check out this beautiful old Pioneer. I suppose my plan is to run the Pioneer as it is with the stock headshell and the Grado Black. When I can afford it I will put a Denon DL-103 or 110 with a step amplifier.

Can anyone give me a reason why I might consider a moving magnet instead of using a step amp with a MC cart?
 
I had both and would give the pl41 the edge over the pl71. In the sonic dept. ran it with a denon dl103r and denon ha1000 step up transformer. The only thing I had to replace was the delrin thrust pad. Kind of miss that table.
 
I've got the PL-41 with a DL-110 and no step up transformer. Why the step up transformer? A phono input won't support the DL-103? Sorry, I'm seasoned on some of this.....
 
dontmindme said:
I've got the PL-41 with a DL-110 and no step up transformer. Why the step up transformer? A phono input won't support the DL-103? Sorry, I'm seasoned on some of this.....
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The DL-110 is a High Output MC, the 103 is not, thus the need for the step up transformer.

I've run a number of carts on PL-41's (why do I have 3 or 4? Must like 'em), and I've always gotten the best results with the stock headshell. And yeah, it looks "right", too.

I think you'll be happy.:thmbsp:
Even though it looks new, check the thrust plate, it most likely need to be replaced.
 
Naptown Rob said:
The DL-110 is a High Output MC, the 103 is not, thus the need for the step up transformer.

I've run a number of carts on PL-41's (why do I have 3 or 4? Must like 'em), and I've always gotten the best results with the stock headshell. And yeah, it looks "right", too.

I think you'll be happy.:thmbsp:
Even though it looks new, check the thrust plate, it most likely need to be replaced.
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Got it, thanks. Me too, I like the look of the original head-shell
 
Squirrely said:
Yes! Very! I spoke to the guy with the Pioneer and plan to pick it up tomorrow. Though the Micro Seiki is a very nice table I am passing on it because it is not local and I really want to check out this beautiful old Pioneer. I suppose my plan is to run the Pioneer as it is with the stock headshell and the Grado Black. When I can afford it I will put a Denon DL-103 or 110 with a step amplifier.

Can anyone give me a reason why I might consider a moving magnet instead of using a step amp with a MC cart?
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there are fine MMs, and high-output MCs you can use. I have come to like a properly loaded LOMC with 60db or so gain. You might have an issue of a faint hum from the Grado line. I did.
 
My vote is for the 71... I love mine.. To me, it's just a flat out better table... and looks better to me... It's one of the few tables I've had I've not sold.. I sold a SL1200 over my 71...

I had a chance to buy a 41.... I passed.. I like my JVC QL-5 better than the 41...

I run a Shure M97HE on my PL-71 and love it.. I have a few other head shells loaded with other carts, and keep going right back to this one..

208815-shure_m97heah_era_iv_phono_cartridge_.jpg
 
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That 41 headshell does look cool, and potentially perfect for use with a DL-103, and it looks like you could easily add some mass (hidden) underneath if you didn't think it was weighty enough
 
I appreciate all the info. I believe in the idea that the simpler signal path offers more clarity so I was skeptical about the step transformer. It seems to work very well though. If I run another DL 103 I will need another transformer because I am setting up a living room system with this table. I know this is a good setup but the cost of the step transformer is more than the difference between the DS 103 and the DL 110. I might go with the high output cart or a moving magnet. If I were to look into a good MM cart what would you guys recommend and what should I expect from the sonic qualities of a MM verses a MC? I am guessing MM carts sound smoother, richer and less detailed. Am I right about that?

Similost,
How would you assess the sonic qualities of the PL-41 vs the PL-71? What did you hear that steered you to your conclusion?

There are so many subtle influences in play with phono play-back it can be difficult to rule out variables. Differences in cartridge is obvious. Condition of stylus, leveling and the set-up of VTA, overhang and down force. Room acoustics, speakers, amp, preamp and even volume setting influence what we hear when we try to evaluate a component. There are so many other things too; interconnects, condition of all the equipment my mood, blood sugar levels, humidity, PMS, international relations…..I think I went too far. You get the idea. What were the conditions under which you evaluated the two tables?

By the way, the Sure headshell and cart are cool looking.
 
Whatever you buy make sure the spring loaded feet on the table are good. Best move I ever made was putting rigid feet on my PL-51, the old spring loaded ones wear out, and are a nuisance.

If you are partial to the looks of the PL-41, I'd buy it without over thinking too much.
 
Thanks Lico. The time for contemplation is over. I am getting in the car to go see the PL-41. If it passes inspection it will come home with me!
 
Squirrely said:
Similost,
How would you assess the sonic qualities of the PL-41 vs the PL-71? What did you hear that steered you to your conclusion?

There are so many subtle influences in play with phono play-back it can be difficult to rule out variables. Differences in cartridge is obvious. Condition of stylus, leveling and the set-up of VTA, overhang and down force. Room acoustics, speakers, amp, preamp and even volume setting influence what we hear when we try to evaluate a component. There are so many other things too; interconnects, condition of all the equipment my mood, blood sugar levels, humidity, PMS, international relations…..I think I went too far. You get the idea. What were the conditions under which you evaluated the two tables?

By the way, the Sure headshell and cart are cool looking.
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It wasn't so much sonic as much as it is function, looks and quality.. If you look at the specs on both, they are super close together on wow, flutter and rumble but the 71 is a tad better according to the specs..

The 41 I saw didn't have sprung feet like the 71 did. Also, I've used both DD and belt drive, and I've always liked DD much better... To me, having a strobe to see takes my wonders away of if I am hearing a song at the correct speed and tone... also if it's fluctuating at all..

The controls of the 71 feel more positive, and rugged than they did on the 41.. The 71 was also a little heavier table, which to me, means less effect of vibrations on the table..

Also I like the arm pivot on the 71 much more than I do the 41.. more adjustments possible..

I've been through a lot of older tables.. Thorens, Technics, Pioneer, Sansui, Dual, and a couple others... My 71 and my JVC QL_5 are the ones that have survived all the tables I've owned..

I do have a pretty rare TEAC TS-81 that I've gotten most the way repaired, but still need a belt for it... I like it, it seems to be a good table, and it sounds nice what little I have listened to it, but I still like my Pioneer more.. .

I do however love the Micro Seiki arm on the TEAC...
 
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