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Pioneer SX-9 Where to start, if at all

652-3296P-1-504LF 500Kohms 3296P Multi Turn : 12 3/8" Sealed parallel to pcb

652-3386H-1-101LF 100ohms 3386H Single Turn 3/8" ? 10% parallel to pcb, triangle of pins ccw min#1 triangle

652-3386H-1-104LF (triangular lead holes) 100Kohms 3386W Single Turn 3/8" ? 10% parallel to pcb

damn, that's my fault. I missed that post...

before applying power, are the output transistors socketed?

while idle current doesn't apply, the dc offset (which most faults would reveal themselves through) can be adjusted without the output transistors connected - it's a common troubleshooting test for this topography of amplifier (It dc balances without them).

BUT YOU MUST BE SURE THE MAIN CAPS ARE COMPLETELY DISCHARGED BEFORE TRYING TO RECONNECT THE OUTPUT TRANSISTORS...

The outputs are not socketed. I've already soldered them to the rectifier board.

Would desoldering them be the most prudent coarse of action?

The pots I have will still work, won't they? I had to get ones perpendicular to the board as the board is vertical and the back plate is only about 1cm away. The DC offset pots can still be reached being parallel, but the others wouldn't work, you wouldn't be able to get a tool there to turn them.
 
You are fine, desoldering is not warranted, pots fit, the 3329W 321 versus 3329S 123 bit you. You should have gotten 3329X instead of W.
The wiper always goes from 1 to 3 with clockwise rotation, they reverse 123 / 321 on the drawing to get the reverse rotation (ccw zero, cw zero).

The S pot has the center pin FURTHEST from the adjustment face and must have been a pita to install as well, given the solder pad alignment...
LOOK at the data sheet folks!!!

The 3329's both should have been X's...

HOW is the board accessed in this unit, from the edge? It is the board parallel to the back panel, correct? That is how very similar boards in the sx-3900 and sx-d7000 are accessed, and those pots I mentioned are all easily accessible, (parallel to the board). Done quite a few of both, have had AMPLE opportunity to correct any errors... / make better... lol...

For a pot, parallel / perpendicular references the adjust axis of rotation, not the body of the pot.

perpendicular to the board means like a tree growing out of the ground
parallel to the board means like the Alaska pipeline going across the ground.
 
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Mark is like some hard ass dojo master. Just remember, tho....he's a master for a reason.

I love this thread. Good luck weeber, and listen to the man.
 
You are fine, desoldering is not warranted, pots fit, the 3329W 321 versus 3329S 123 bit you. You should have gotten 3329X instead of W.
The wiper always goes from 1 to 3 with clockwise rotation, they reverse 123 / 321 on the drawing to get the reverse rotation (ccw zero, cw zero).

The S pot has the center pin FURTHEST from the adjustment face and must have been a pita to install as well, given the solder pad alignment...
LOOK at the data sheet folks!!!

The 3329's both should have been X's...

HOW is the board accessed in this unit, from the edge? It is the board parallel to the back panel, correct? That is how very similar boards in the sx-3900 and sx-d7000 are accessed, and those pots I mentioned are all easily accessible, (parallel to the board). Done quite a few of both, have had AMPLE opportunity to correct any errors... / make better... lol...

For a pot, parallel / perpendicular references the adjust axis of rotation, not the body of the pot.

perpendicular to the board means like a tree growing out of the ground
parallel to the board means like the Alaska pipeline going across the ground.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I'm learning so much. When I went to buy the pots there were so many to choose from. I didn't realize there are so many variations.

When I went to put in one of the sets I was like WTF! The little triangle of pins is upside down! Not fun bending them into the opposite triangle, especially since the pins aren't very long to begin with.

Next time, though, I'll know exactly what to get!

The board is vertical, parallel with the back panel. There is about a centemeter or two between the them and the pots are in that space, accessible from the top with a screwdriver. You can see it pretty good in the pic in post #73

Today, I got all the bits I need to make a DBT. I'll try it out in a day or two, after the festivities.

Any last minute things I need to double check?
 
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Have we done power supply voltages? Although on DBT they are not all the way up, PLUS DBT can have some scary effects if you are not prepared for them.

Instructional course will trickle in during the next few days.

When on DBT, unit is operating in a "brownout", and the threshold for protect relay to think unit is turned on and off may be crossed, downwards, when idle current is increased, and bulb glows somewhat brighter, kicking unit into protection.
 
Ok, we can't read them on DBT, so we don't check before powering up - since they are not adjustable anyway, we'll check them if the amplifier output DC offset voltage doesn't zero.

g'nite...
 
(note to self: refill printer with paper and print this all off before I start my SX9 refurb in a week or so....)

Can you guys discuss a Kenwood KR4070 before I start it in a month? ;-)
 
(note to self: refill printer with paper and print this all off before I start my SX9 refurb in a week or so....)

Can you guys discuss a Kenwood KR4070 before I start it in a month?
;-)


Hello,

Maybe start a new thread with your intentions in the title. The guys will more than likely walk you through any obstacles. Good luck.
 
Hello,

Maybe start a new thread with your intentions in the title. The guys will more than likely walk you through any obstacles. Good luck.

James...that was tongue in cheek...you just cannot get this kind of support from the SCM on the database...if his posts are not being printed off or saved then a disservice is being done!

(the part you bolded just means "everyone on this site would love to see a discussion of this level before they start in on the same unit")

(Heck Ill buy the domain if someone will manage the posts and threads like this one....how about...MTF.com? :-)
 
James...that was tongue in cheek...you just cannot get this kind of support from the SCM on the database...if his posts are not being printed off or saved then a disservice is being done!

(the part you bolded just means "everyone on this site would love to see a discussion of this level before they start in on the same unit")

(Heck Ill buy the domain if someone will manage the posts and threads like this one....how about...MTF.com? :-)

My bad, man.
As long as we keep the servers running, this info should be here in the future.

Your eyes would pop out of your head if you knew the sheer volume of people MTF has helped in a jam.

I'm a fan. :thmbsp:
 
I have no such amp...nor am I likely to...but I'm watching this closely as I am always amazed at MTF and his skill, and unbelievable patience in walking people with limited skills (like myself) thru some super complex repairs ...hang tough and follow Mark down the rabbit hole with no fear...you will hear this unit sing again...and be more experienced for it
 
Dim bulb tester done

The dim bulb tester is done.

I'm ready to go.

VR1&2 middle travel

All others set to 0 ohms.

I'd like to get the OK from MTF before I proceed. :scratch2:
 
I was too excited. I couldn't wait.

Pluged it into the DBT and threw the switch (on the DBT). No drama, clock in front display lit up. So far, so good.

Sqinted a little and at arms length, cautiously press the power button. No fireworks, bulb glowed brightly, then quickly dimmed to a slight dim glow. After a few seconds I even got a relay click.

Did a little cheer and turned it all off. I'll now try to adjust it on the DBT.
 
Adjustments

Here's how my adjustments went.

First off, the manual states VR1 adjusts DC offset for the left channel and VR2 adjusts the right. However, I found the opposite. Strange. They both adjusted to 0mV without issues though.

VR3 and VR5 adjusted just fine with the DBT, without it, and after 20 minutes of running.

VR4 started at 65mV with the DBT, and under the other conditions too. I could adjust VR6 up to 70mV just fine. After 20 minutes it had crept up to 78mV. The best after that was 71mV with both pots turned to their respective lowest settings.

So the idle current on that side is too high, right from the start.

On the good side the heatsinks did not get very hot, just warm, and they both heated at the same rate.

How do I track down this voltage issue?
 
I was too excited. I couldn't wait.

headbang1.gif


I repair MORE damage after that is said. It's the CARDINAL sin in the MTF universe. It's called "jumping ahead" RIGHT into the middle of the damn minefield.

:nono: :bash: :rant:

:tears: ... moving on ... :sigh:

what transistors are different between the left and right channels on a position by position basis, which are original. like one channel could have an original, and one a replacement, and what are the numbers of BOTH.

we are looking for differences between the two amp channel COMPONENTS.
 
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I should know better

You're right, and I knew you'd get mad at me for doing it, but I had checked everything four times and confident it was ready to go.

I promise it won't happen again. I understand how frustrating that must be for you, and if people won't listen, you'll stop helping them, and I know I will need your help again on some other future project.

Moving on....

There aren't any different components from side to side. I made sure that if I replaced a part on one side, I changed the part on the other whether it was good or not, just so they'd match. Actually, that's not true,I didn't replace the diodes on one side after replacing the blown ones. The originals are on the side that's giving problems, they tested OK though.
 
Not mad (mad implies a loss of control), more disappointed and a bit angry / resigned.
Water under the bridge at this point, on the bright side there's no smoking ruins to repair.
NOBODY has so far forced me to "go nuclear"....

I didn't replace the diodes on one side after replacing the blown ones.The originals are on the side that's giving problems, they tested OK though

we are looking for differences between the two amp channel COMPONENTS.

WHICH DIODES, NAME THEM fer crying out loud - how can I THINK on the problem if I don't know?
You should change them first, and HOPE that it straightens this out.

Also list the component (Qxxx) and part (ksc1845) number of every transistor that has been changed, even if they have been changed on both channels, INCLUDING the outputs. I HAVE to know what we're working with.

otherwise, we've got a LOT of digging(measuring, investigating) to do, to root out differences of probably less then 0.1 volt
the difference in voltage could be a single component, or a group of components that were damaged during the failure, and while still testing somewhat functional, have been altered enough to cause this.

This amp is almost identical to the sx-3900 and sx-d7000, so:
(but the board layout is quite different in places)
and confirming the instructions on that page are back asswards...
vr1, vr3, vr5 (odd # parts) are the right channel
vr2, vr4, vr6 ( even # parts) are the borked left channel, which has too high of a minimum idle current. borked....

measure some voltages:
Thermal diodes -
1. the voltage between wire wrap pins 309(black) and 310(red) of the awh-114 amplifier board, right channel
2. the voltage between wire wrap pins 307(black) and 308(red) of the awh-114 amplifier board, borked left channel
Do this very quickly when the unit is just turned on, and cold - so that BOTH thermal diodes
are at nearly the same temperature.

IF they are significantly different, then these (pita) readings are needed:
back all 4 idle pots down to zero ohms, so we are comparing apples to apples
and do this:
1. connect the red dmm wire to pin 5 (+54v regulated) of the awh-114 amplifier board.
2. probe with an insulated (all but the tiniest portion of the tip) black probe
2.a. q115 emitter
2.b. q115 base
2.c. q116 emitter
2.d. q116 base
note: LATER we will measure (with the POWER OFF) the resistance of R127 and R128
This is the current source for the thermal bias diodes, and a difference here WILL alter the expected thermal bias diode junction's baseline voltage drop.

In close quarters, measuring live boards, I first solder tack wires to each of the measurement points and bring them out and over, securing them to a piece of cardboard with their descriptions of where they are coming from written on the cardboard.

If they are different we will have to correct this.
If they are THE SAME, we :sigh: will have to dig lots deeper.
 
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The diodes I replaced were at D115 and D135.

I'd love the change the ones on the left channel, but stupidly I only bought one each.

The outputs Q1 through Q4 were replaced with Sanken 2sc2922
Q5 through Q8 with Sanken 2sa12162

This is what else was changed:

AWH-114: D115: 78-1N4154 1S1555
AWH-114: D135: 954-E-183 WZ-046

AWH-114: Q133: 757-2SC5171(Q,M) 2SC2275A
AWH-114: Q134: 757-2SC5171(Q,M) "
AWH-114: Q135: 757-2SA1930(Q,M) 2SA985A
AWH-114: Q136: 757-2SA1930(Q,M) "

AWH-114: VR1: 652-3386P-1-474LF ACP-062 470K Ohm
AWH-114: VR2: 652-3386P-1-474LF
AWH-114: VR3: 652-3329W-1-101LF ACP-019 100 Ohm
AWH-114: VR4: 652-3329W-1-101LF
AWH-114: VR5: 652-3329S-1-104LF ACP-010 100K Ohm
AWH-114: VR6: 652-3329S-1-104LF

AWH-114: R163: 660-MF1/4LCT52R221J 220 Ohm
AWH-114: R177: 660-MF1/4LCT52R101J 100 Ohm
AWH-114: R181: 660-CF1/4CT52R201J 200 Ohm

No other transistors were changed.

I also changed all 4 emitter resistors from new parts I bought off eBay. The numbers printed were exactly the same as original. RGC55.

I'll make those other measurements tonight.
 
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