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Plasma Vs. Lcd

Micropassatman said:
Hey there Duff!

I may live in Boise now, but I was born and raised in and around Sacto! Moved here 5 years ago. I was just there for Turkey Day. :D
Ah the weather was very nice on Thanksgiving. I took my son for a bike ride that day, it was beautiful out.
 
wordy but worthwhile- I hope!

Nakdoc said:
Pioneer plasma folks. Take it from a pro who fixes HD sets.

I thought I’d weigh in on this issue. As one who has spent the last 6 months searching, reading and generally agonizing over what brand model will provide me the most satisfaction over the long haul. 2nd consideration was newly renovated den and space available to place TV.

NO wall mounts or floor stands, though I have a built-in bookshelf wide and high enough to fit a 50” and hide all the cabling behind it and associated source equipment in lower compartments with doors which close over.

PIONEER PLASMA IT IS!!!!!!!

For starters, I eliminated those “types” which have inherent performance issues relative to where the TV will be placed in the viewing area.

LCD: Already owing a Sharp Aquos, LCD’s are prone to “mouse trailing” in action sequences and fast movement giving the impression of bluring. They have very narrow severe viewable areas, limiting off side viewing angles of any type. Not acceptable to multi person viewing.

Rear Projection: Already own a Sony 53” xbr… just too large, cumbersome and ominous in viewing area. Picture is fine but not bright enough, Lenses need cleaning every year or so. Just old technology… Put it in the basement for general TV watching…enough said

DLP: Some Sony sets are fabulous.. But the old bugga-booh about “rainbow effects” caused by the color wheel still occurs. Also large in comparison to Plasma. Image still not as vivid as wither LCD or PLASMA. SONY models now offer true 1080P, though image is still does not approach the better Plasmas or LCD. Cost effective , if $$$ is the issue. Not designer friendly at all….

Plasma: The field is wide and treacherous!

For starters, TRUE HDTV BEGINS AT 720P (1280x720 progressive<720p>)
There are 2 HDTV standards – 1920X1080 Interlaced<1080i> and
1280x720 progressive<720p>. So in order for a Plasma TV to be considered truly “HD” it should have at least the same amount of pixels as a 720P signal or more. Anything less is ED (extended definition) where more pixels are added to the smaller screens but not as many as true HD display.

Keep in mind that virtually EVERY SET can be aligned to make some improvement over out of the box performance. YOU SHOULD DO THIS ANYWAY, AS MOST SETS OVER SATURATED AND MUCH TOO BRIGHT RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. ( keep in mind the term ISF).
See: HTTP://WWW.HDtvexpert.com/pages_b/shopping.html

FYI- HDTV signals vary between 720 p and 1080i. FOX puts out 480p, CBS puts out 1080i. The better the signal, the more bandwidth the network needs. And it costs$$$

Drum Roll please!

So what did I buy you ask?

I filtered my choices down to three 50” models:

PIONEER PRO1140HD - Elite
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=720961


PIONEER PDP-5070HD
(42” PDP-4070HD) almost as good)
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/pioneer-pdp4270hd-plasma-review.html

PANASONIC TH50PX600u
(42”TH42PX600U: identical performance wise just as good and highly reviewed and rated by multiple magazines and sites)
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/panasonic-th42px600u-review.html

Remember my earlier comment about “ISF” Imaging Science Foundation.
http://www.imagingscience.com/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586330


Of these units only the Pioneer ELITE line allows ISF calibration at the manufacturer level – not just the “USER LEVEL”. This level overcomes the general limitation of most user controls and gets down into the brains of the monitor previously only available to the manufacturer. That’s not say that ISF calibration technicians can only be performed on Pioneer Elite. These certified technicians can improve virtually any quality TV’s image.

Financials: The Pioneer Elite line is about 20-30% more costly then the Regular line. WORTH EVERY PENNY. Though discounting is found on the internet, PIONEER website and Customer Service confirm if you purchase the ELITE unit online from a Internet seller- the warranty is void!!! Exceptions are authorized PIONEER dealers—(you have to phone call to make the deal which I found will negotiate with you) .You can find out authorized Internet dealers by going to the Pioneer site directly.

Ok heres the good news:

I bought the PIONEER PRO1140HD from BESTBUY- Magnolia There new High end room. These folks will deal if your ready to hold your ground and flash your green!!!!
Paid $4000 taxes, delivered, unboxed and tested. Saved under a $1000 off list!

Next choice would have been the PIONEER PDP-5070HD and you can get that on the internet anywhere from $2500 and up….from authorized dealers.

Final choice would have been the PANASONIC TH50PX600U this can found on the net or generally anywhere for about $2100 and up. This model and its little sister have been highly reviewed and touted by many as having the best black imaging of any consumer Plasma. I confirm that in my search. Not that the Pioneers are slouches, I wanted more than the Panasonic could offer…in terms of controlling picture controls at the studio level.
http://plasmatvbuyingguide.com/


Please remember cost in and of itself was never a consideration, and not the primary issue for ME (maybe the wife). Any of these TV’s are the best consumer Plasma units out there today (notwithstanding the new Pioneer PRO-FDH1 1080P unit, which absolutely stunning using a blu-ray player…also $6000!).
Though with so little 1080 material out there and so few sources, including Satellite cable feeds, DVD players and FIOS this new PIONEER is ahead of the curve.

I hope my lengthy dissertation was of some value to you.
 
ginovino said:
Rear Projection: Already own a Sony 53” xbr… just too large, cumbersome and ominous in viewing area. Picture is fine but not bright enough, Lenses need cleaning every year or so. Just old technology… Put it in the basement for general TV watching…enough said

So that means you didn't look at the Sony SXRD sets? LCOS is NOT old technology. It is also NOT LCD nor is it DLP. No color wheel effect. No 'mouse-trailing'. High-contrast (10,00:1) and DEEP blacks. True 1080p naitive resolution. NO off-axis viewing issues( dimming and smearing) NO burn-in or burn-out(plasma). To each their own, I guess...
 
Tanks for your additional comments and justlifiably warranted!

In fact I did! While impressive, the Sony SXRD still didn't provide me with the level of control and versatility found in the other models I wrote of, in addition to being somewhat larger in depth than my space easily accomodated. The issue of Warranty and reliability also played a part in making the final decision. While I already own a SONY and it has been extremly reliable. The "Plasma factor" weighed very heavily in favor of the Pioneer...
 
ginovino said:
Tanks for your additional comments and justlifiably warranted!

In fact I did! While impressive, the Sony SXRD still didn't provide me with the level of control and versatility found in the other models I wrote of, in addition to being somewhat larger in depth than my space easily accomodated. The issue of Warranty and reliability also played a part in making the final decision. While I already own a SONY and it has been extremly reliable. The "Plasma factor" weighed very heavily in favor of the Pioneer...
Outside of user control and size how did the SXRD picture compare to the finest plasmas? This TV is on the top of my list for replacing my Toshiba 56H80 that is now six years old and has no digital inputs. The ability to accept a 1080P input is VERY appealing to me. While not many sources now there will be and I don't want to get stuck again like I did with my Toshiba. From my analysis the SXRD has the best picture of the digital RPTV's but I have not compared it directly to the big plasmas, meaning larger than 50", which is a requirement for me.
 
Micropassatman said:
It is also NOT LCD nor is it DLP. No color wheel effect. No 'mouse-trailing'. High-contrast (10,00:1) and DEEP blacks. True 1080p naitive resolution. NO off-axis viewing issues( dimming and smearing) NO burn-in or burn-out(plasma).

I will say this - If I was to buy a Plasma, it would definitely be the Pioneer Elite! Congratulations. I bought the KDS-60A2000. Let me say this: I can stand a foot away from my television and get NO screen-door effect, and NO digital artifacts at all. I have never met a Plasma that had smearing and pixellation. Knowing my SXRD has 2,000,000 pixels helps me sleep better at night! :banana:
 
If there were NO other options, I would choose plasma. But my friend, there are other options. CRT is still the best price-performance ratio for HDTV bar none but you want a 50" so that's out of the question. Have you checked out the AVS forum? They have a wealth of information about that as well. Have you ever heard about SED TV?
 
The mouse trailing effect is of a major concern, I can't stand that. side viewing angle is not a problem. The tv will be wall mounted. glare from a window is a concern, I have that with my rear projection tv and it too drives me nuts. You see every reflection in the screen. burn in is not a problem for me because I don't play video games. I guess I'm a little gun shy. I will pull the trigger on this after chrismas but I want to make the right choice. I'll only have one chance. The wife has given the stamp of approval, anything Iwant is fine with her. But I'll have to live with the outcome for quite a while. None of the musical chair syndrom like with the audio components.
 
If glare/reflections are an issue, you may wish to rethink plasma. Most have shiny glass. You'll have to go out and look at the sets. Make sure when you buy, that you have a good 30 return policy.
Jack
 
Amen!

Micropassatman said:
Don't buy anything you haven't physically stood in front of.
I whole heartdly agree!!!! You must view these sets in rooms with Florescent lights whcih is in the blue end of the spectrum. Then in candescent as in your home.. And certainly window light. NO SET looks good with window glare.

Also make sure your set has the ability to set and SAVE both a DAY & Nightime setting. Be certain you have a minimum of 2 HDMI inputs seperate and not shared with the component inputs! NOT DVI inputs.. which cause you to run a audio cable along with the DVI cable.

Shiny glass is a function of Plasma & LCD screens. Many RPTV's have screens designed to show high contrast using a diffuser screen... however it hurts viewable resolution...

My intent is not to disparage SXRC - Sony products et al... Ultimately your eyes and pocket book will prevail... I look forward to you selection and what you will then decide for the audio side of the deal!!!!!:tresbon: :music:
 
I would think that would be distracting. I have floor lights (canned) that backlight the wall near the TV set. Works really well.
 
fujifrontier said:
what does everyone think of that philips set that has lights behind it that change colour

It tricks the eyes into thinking the image on screen is brighter and more contrasty. Its does work.

dew.
 
Micropassatman said:
Don't buy anything you haven't physically stood in front of.

Agreed.

Who cares about everyone's opinions? If it looks good to you and price is right - that's the best one. Go take some time and look at some TVs and make your decision based on that. Bounce questions off sales folks.

I still like CRT's personally. If I had money burning in my pocket I would get a Plasma since I am a contrast snob.

dew.
 
I recently purchased the Sony XBR3 1080p (about 6 weeks ago). I spent considerable time (about a week going into, and back to stores) looking at all sets in several high line HT stores. It got down to the new Pioneer 50" Plasma 1080p and the Sony 46" XBR3 1080p. Fortunately, these were displayed next to one another in two stores . . . one in their main showing room, and another in a home theater set-up.

Plasma is not good for those who have windows/outside light issues. The glare is very evident. Any of the knowledgable people will tell you this.

I don't know what those are talking about who say that viewing sets like the XBR3 from an angle gets washed out. It just doesn't happen. Both types of sets were excellent with this issue.

Both sets were excellent, and the XBR3 had no visible trailing issues. The blacks on both sets were excellent. Sony really made improvements in this area.

The projected longevity of the XBR3 type sets is at least double that of the plasma sets.

The pictures including color and contrast of both sets were spectacular, but, I found the plasma to be actually too dark and not as realistic.

During my last 3 visits, my eye just started to immediately go to the Sony. The picture was just more exciting and balanced. (I did have the opportunity to play with the settings on both sets in one of the stores, as both were set too vivid)

I purchased at Magnolia department in Best Buy in FL (one of their first in the chain), as they were the first to get them in store to sell. Got a great price (listed at the time at $4,900), and paid $3,900 with discounts (set now lists for $4,000). The 50" Pioneer Elite 1080p plasma listed (at the time) for over ($9,000)

Now having lived with it at home, I am very happy with my purchase. After adjusting the set down (it is very vivid out-of-the-box), it is truly spectacular. The one negative thing this set shows up, are the regular cable station signals are really inferior to HD signals. So, after hooking up a new Pioneer Elite 84 receiver with HD video upscaling, the regular signal channels look great too. All are hooked up using HDMI cable.

Bottom line, is both are great sets, but, there is no comparison when you consider the price difference. If the prices were the same, however . . . I'd still buy the Sony XBR3.
 
It seems like the lcd is the way to go for me. I spent some time this weekend looking at a few different sets, again both plasma and lcd. The newer lcd's are the way to go. just can't get over the light reflection and glare from the plasma's. I think I will wait till superbowl time and see if I can get a good deal on a 52 inch LCD. I've noticed the lcd's seem to run alot cooler and they consume quit a bit less power than the lcd's also. Now just to see whats coming in the way of new lcd sets in the very near future.
 
DS1784 said:
just can't get over the light reflection and glare from the plasma's.
Having lived with a highly reflective CRT based HD RPTV for the past six years the reflective glare is a deal breaker for me. That completely kept plasmas off my list for my bedroom that has both South and West facing windows.
 
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