Playing beat-up vinyls
- Thread starter Waspinators
- Start date
caddisgeek
sorry.......what?
Shakespeare would be appalled at the mangled English used by all in this thread (including me), so maybe some people need to realize that while a language is living, it is evolving, particularly when using colloquial terms, and just get over it
Oh, and cleaning records, LP's, albums and vinyls is a good idea
Oh, and cleaning records, LP's, albums and vinyls is a good idea
Waspinators
Member
:scratch2: Emo? I think the correct title for me is newbie, sir. That aside, I never mind (and actually enjoy to an extent) a bit of noise on my vinyl if it doesn't override the music itself, but keeping it to a minimum is something I need to start doing. I'm definitely gonna start looking into cleaning machines once I throw down for a nicer cartridge.
jetblack
Super Member
The short answer to the OPs question is:
If you've cleaned the LP, then you've done just about everything you can do.
Diamond Tip Stylus ~ 1
Vinyl ~ 0
To the knuckleheads who are getting wrapped around the axle over one alpha character (please tell me you're 'joshin' me):
Vinyl is good
Vinyls is bad
How about Vinylettes? Yeah, I think from this point forward, I'll use that term to describe the LPs that I love. The most important point in this hobby is to go and enjoy the 'whatchamacallits'.
If you've cleaned the LP, then you've done just about everything you can do.
Diamond Tip Stylus ~ 1
Vinyl ~ 0
To the knuckleheads who are getting wrapped around the axle over one alpha character (please tell me you're 'joshin' me):
Vinyl is good
Vinyls is bad
How about Vinylettes? Yeah, I think from this point forward, I'll use that term to describe the LPs that I love. The most important point in this hobby is to go and enjoy the 'whatchamacallits'.
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Contrarian that I am, I have found that scrupulous cleaning of used records often makes them a candidate for my primary rig, running a Benz Ace. The line-contact stylus gets very deep into the newly-cleaned groove, often resulting in perfect playback of nearly pristine grooves. I have had ten-cent garage sale records, completely unlistenable on a budget cart (Stanton/AT/Grado, etc., tried about half a dozen) because the stylus tracks in the badly worn groove. Thorough cleaning and the smaller stylus size lets the stylus get deeper into 'untouched' parts of the groove. I stunned a friend of mine, when I rescued one of the records he was going to throw out as 'junk'. Cleaned it up, and played it on my table. Background was inky black, and the music was incredible.
I still check my records on a 'disposable' cart, to make sure that the record actually is in playable condition, but, once I know that, it usually goes to my best table.
I still check my records on a 'disposable' cart, to make sure that the record actually is in playable condition, but, once I know that, it usually goes to my best table.
Arkay
Lunatic Member
Actually, I completely agree with you; the right stylus can make all the difference (See item #3 in my list psted above)! I've also had records that looked awful when acquired --dirty, moldy and scratched-looking-- that turned into pristine-looking best-rig-playables once thoroughly cleaned.
As for vinyl being unable to hurt a diamond stylus, as obvious as that seems, it may not always be entirely true. In normal playing of regular grooves, of course it is entirely true. But in damaged grooves, where scratches have cut into/across the grooves and bent or ripped the walls of the groove into the path of the stylus, head-on impacts occur with potentially terrific forces at work in such tiny areas. Forces strong enough to toss the whole arm up and send the stylus, arm and cart skating across the grooved record surface are not unknown. Such forces, especially if repeatedly delivered, can have an effect on the bonds that glue the diamond stylus to the cantilever, the positioning and straightness of the cantilever, and the "suspension" of it. True, they won't "scratch" the diamond itself, but they can damage the cart/stylus.
So while I agree that a clean and unscratched record poses no threat to a stylus, I'm not at all sure that a scratched record, no matter how clean, is entirely "safe".
To make an analogy, my flesh and bones are ordinarily stiffer and stronger than water. I can easily move my body into and out of a body of water, and cut through it while swimming, without harm to my body. The water is not strong enough to tear my skin, under those circumstances. But when I did a badly-timed triple somersault off a three-meter board years ago and impacted the water's surface squarely against my face, well... let's just say impact speed and angle can make a huge difference! And when you have a scratch on a record, sometimes the result is like that: a head-on impact for the stylus. Probably still too soft a material (relatively speaking) to cleave the diamond, but still not entirely safe for playing, IMO.
Of course, shallow/minimal scratches are reasonably safe, as they will usually not cause more than minimal edge impacts; it is the deeper, serious grooves that are worrisome.
MWalt
Super Member
I say both. "Vinyls" is the way it is said in the world of youth. Whatever it takes to get our youth interested in vinyl only helps all of us that like that medium.
guitarman50
Super Member
NoClue48
The music says it all...
I'm with Felix!
When I hear "vinyls", I start thinking floor covering and seat cover options--which dates me also.
12ax7
Super Member
I loved those Motown girl groups! Day do ron ron ron, day do ron ron...
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
Another bit of digital age phraseology that sneaks its way into vinyldom is to say something like, "Will such-and-such stylus read a vinyl LP disc?"
Although technically correct in that a stylus does "read" the groove walls, and there were devices back then that read data from tapes and such, it is a phrase that never would have appeared in the vinyl vernacular.
Doug
Although technically correct in that a stylus does "read" the groove walls, and there were devices back then that read data from tapes and such, it is a phrase that never would have appeared in the vinyl vernacular.
Doug
Perhaps we're brewing a bit of storm in a teacup here. In my experience I've never had an 'arm launch' except from a badly warped record on it's very last playing. Maybe another analogy might illustrate my point. Styli are like the brakes and tires on your car, they are going to wear out if you drive your car. Wash your car (LP), enjoy the drive (the music) and replace those tires and brakes when they're worn so you don't crash and total your car (vinyl collection).
michaelhigh
mind's eye music
Let's see... you guys have piles and itchy vinyls... for goodness' sake, just scratch the darned things and shut up about it - that's way too much information!
Getting back to the OP's question... CLEAN records that have no static charge shouldn't sound bad, unless they are also physically scratched. To get the most out of playing those beat-up old records, do this:
1. Clean, clean and CLEAN them. Read up on the old threads about things like glue peeling, steaming (perhaps...be careful!), GEM cleaners, and above all, vacuum-type RCMs (record cleaning machines, like the VPIs).
2. Zap 'em with a Zerostat gun, or equivalent, to remove static charge. (Less necessary in humid climates than in dry ones; also try using anti-static inner sleeves, and consider adding a ground connection to your TT's platter where it will drain charge from the records).
3. Try different styli, to find one that will ride in a less-worn and less-damaged part of the groove. Make sure to try a line-contact stylus among the mix.
4. Don't use your best styli (or ones that you care a lot about) on your more damaged records; scratches can definitely take their toll on the stylus, because of the impact forces involved, If you accumulate a lot of "beater" records, consider setting up a "first-play" or "test" TT and cart, just to screen out which records have too much noise, before you play them on your best gear. Use a cart that you know tracks very well (doesn't skip), but which you don't care too much about. Make sure it is set up properly, then use it for its purpose and don't worry about it. Check the stylus occasionally, to make sure that you aren't playing records with a damaged stylus, which can cause groove damage.
5. If you have records you really like, but which have too much noise, consider converting them into a digital recording, and electronically "cleaning them up". You'll lose some of the sound quality, but overall may end up with a more listen-able recording.
6. Enjoy the music!
Wow. I'm gonna go get a CD player, that's too much like werk.
Waspinators
Member
Honestly I only say vinyl(s) when I'm talking about the format itself (grooves, cleaning, noise, etc.); if I'm mentioning them in the musical sense I'll usually say albums or LPs/EPs/singles. I don't think it really matters what ya call the damn things as long as you don't call them discs.
goldear
Certifiable Audio Junkie
That's one of my pet-peves too. So I can relate to your frustration.They are not called "vinyls". It's "vinyl" and "vinyl" works for both singular and plural!
But I must say that from now on I am going to refer to CDs as "Polycarbonates" the next time that somebody calls records "vinyls" in my presence. :yes:
The only time I'll purchase a record that is beat up with deep scratches is when I want just the cover. Other then that I draw the line at VG where you might have light scratches/abrasions and with a HE stylus I'm able to get under the damage. VG is my exception, my norm is NM or M. With billions of records mfg it isn't all that difficult to find a copy in great shape. Suggest you try another source of records, most of mine come from a local record store with prices as low as three for a dollar in the bargain bins.