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Please Help me optimize my New Turntables Counterweight and antiskate

ClayTune

ClayTune

Well-Known Member
So, here are some pictures of my current counter weight and anti-skate settings.

I am getting a little "muffle" on some vocals and some Sss Sibilance sometimes (maybe 20% of the time).

The manufacturers recommended counter weight for this cartridge (the groove tool) is between 2.5 and 3.5, my counter weight goes from 2.5 back to 0

So based on this knowledge and what you see here what do you think is the best adjustment I can make to both counterweight and antiskate, where should each of them be set?

Also, I am clueless as to what to do with the tone arm height adjustment feature (also pictured). Please enlighten me?IMG_0361.JPG IMG_0363.JPG IMG_0367 (1).JPG

Thank you.
 
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I'm not sure I'll get all of this right, but I'm sure others will chime in.

Here's how I set up an arm for a new cartridge.
  1. Align the cartridge (This is its own process altogether. Audiokarma has plenty of threads about it as do several excellent websites. Just Google align a phono cartridge.)
  2. Once the cartridge is alined, ignore the numerical dial in front of the counterweight. It means nothing yet.
  3. Hold the headshell with one finger and begin finding it's balance. You do this with the counter weight at the backend of the tonearm. The precise balance will be pretty exact and you'll feel when you're getting close. Once you're close, slowly turn loose of the headshell to make sure the arm isn't going to flop down and wreck you stylus. You'll want to balance your tonearm so that the stylus is horizontal to the record's surface. When properly balanced, the tonearm will just "hover" with the stylus at the correct position.
  4. Now is the time to worry about that dial at the front of the counter weight. Turn it so that it reads zero. Be careful not to turn the actual counterweight, however. The weight and the dial should move independent of one another.
  5. Once the dial is set to zero, you can apply tracking force, in your case between 2.5 and 3.5 grams. (I always start in the middle.) As you turn the counterweight, the dial should move along with it. Keep turning until you reach three grams.
  6. Set your anti skating dial to the same number as your tracking force.
  7. Now it's time to play a record! Sit back and listen for oddities in your sound. If you hear trebles that are distorted (sibilance) or too harsh, lighten the tracking force and make the corresponding adjustment to the anti skate setting. (Remember, the anti skate should be set to the same number of grams tracking force.) If the bass is muddy or "too fat," lighten the tracking force and adjust the anti skate setting accordingly.
This last may take time to get right. Don't be afraid to play with the tracking force within the cartridge's limits. Every cartridge reacts differently to different tonearms, platters, motors, etc. Setting up your tonearm for a new cartridge is 25% process (the steps above) and 75% the art of finding what sounds right to you.

Now, as for those numbers at the base of your tonearm, I'm not sure what those are. If you change the value of the number, does your tonearm's height increase or decrease? If so, your tonearm is capable of having its vertical tracking angle (VTA) adjusted. (Lucky devil.) The best way to learn how to make this adjustment would be to go here: http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php. This site gives access to the owner's manual for hundreds of tonearms. Once you get the tonearm's owner's manual, follow the instructions for setting the VTA. I'll bet you will need to make this setting before doing any of the steps above.

If the dial does not set the VTA, honestly I have no idea what it does, so.... that's right - go get the owner's manual. It will surely tell you what those numbers are for. ;)

Let us know how you're doing!
 
Last edited:
I didn't read all of above post, it's late and I'm tired. I do want to add you might want to upgrade your cartridge. 2.5-3.5 gr is a fairly heavy tracking force and normally only used for DJ use with conical stylii. It will cause excessive record wear and won't give you the best sound quality. Try to keep tracking force around 1.5-1.8 gr.
 
cscottrun4it said:
I'm not sure I'll get all of this right, but I'm sure others will chime in.

Here's how I set up an arm for a new cartridge.
  1. Align the cartridge (This is its own process altogether. Audiokarma has plenty of threads about it as do several excellent websites. Just Google align a phono cartridge.)
  2. Once the cartridge is alined, ignore the numerical dial in front of the counterweight. It means nothing yet.
  3. Hold the headshell with one finger and begin finding it's balance. You do this with the counter weight at the backend of the tonearm. The precise balance will be pretty exact and you'll feel when you're getting close. Once you're close, slowly turn loose of the headshell to make sure the arm isn't going to flop down and wreck you stylus. You'll want to balance your tonearm so that the stylus is horizontal to the record's surface. When properly balanced, the tonearm will just "hover" with the stylus at the correct position.
  4. Now is the time to worry about that dial at the front of the counter weight. Turn it so that it reads zero. Be careful not to turn the actual counterweight, however. The weight and the dial should move independent of one another.
  5. Once the dial is set to zero, you can apply tracking force, in your case between 2.5 and 3.5 grams. (I always start in the middle.) As you turn the counterweight, the dial should move along with it. Keep turning until you reach three grams.
  6. Set your anti skating dial to the same number as your tracking force.
  7. Now it's time to play a record! Sit back and listen for oddities in your sound. If you hear trebles that are distorted (sibilance) or too harsh, lighten the tracking force and make the corresponding adjustment to the anti skate setting. (Remember, the anti skate should be set to the same number of grams tracking force.) If the bass is muddy or "too fat," lighten the tracking force and adjust the anti skate setting accordingly.
This last may take time to get right. Don't be afraid to play with the tracking force within the cartridge's limits. Every cartridge reacts differently to different tonearms, platters, motors, etc. Setting up your tonearm for a new cartridge is 25% process (the steps above) and 75% the art of finding what sounds right to you.

Now, as for those numbers at the base of your tonearm, I'm not sure what those are. If you change the value of the number, does your tonearm's height increase or decrease? If so, your tonearm is capable of having its vertical tracking angle (VTA) adjusted. (Lucky devil.) The best way to learn how to make this adjustment would be to go here: http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php. This site gives access to the owner's manual for hundreds of tonearms. Once you get the tonearm's owner's manual, follow the instructions for setting the VTA. I'll bet you will need to make this setting before doing any of the steps above.

If the dial does not set the VTA, honestly I have no idea what it does, so.... that's right - go get the owner's manual. It will surely tell you what those numbers are for. ;)

Let us know how you're doing!
Click to expand...
When I first received the turntable another adiokarma member called me up on the phone and helped me set up the tone arm. The cartridge is pre-aligned according to the manufacturer Numark.
 
Bugler said:
I didn't read all of above post, it's late and I'm tired. I do want to add you might want to upgrade your cartridge. 2.5-3.5 gr is a fairly heavy tracking force and normally only used for DJ use with conical stylii. It will cause excessive record wear and won't give you the best sound quality. Try to keep tracking force around 1.5-1.8 gr.
Click to expand...
It might be that the suggested setting is due to this being a turntable designed for DJ use.

If I set the counter weight to, say 1.8, what would you suggest the anti-skate be set to?
 
ClayTune said:
It might be that the suggested setting is due to this being a turntable designed for DJ use.

If I set the counter weight to, say 1.8, what would you suggest the anti-skate be set to?
Click to expand...

Forget what I said. It is a DJ turntable and if it has the original cartridge/stylus you'll have to set tracking per requirements of the cartridge/stylus combo.
 
Height adjustment is used to set the vertical tracking angle of the cantilever/ stylus. In general if you adjust it so the tonearm is parallel to the record surface when playing a record you'll be good to go.
 
Bugler said:
Height adjustment is used to set the vertical tracking angle of the cantilever/ stylus. In general if you adjust it so the tonearm is parallel to the record surface when playing a record you'll be good to go.
Click to expand...
It seems that this is the 0 default setting. I placed a bubble level over the tone arm at the 0 position and it seems perfectly aligned.

In what situations would it require adjustment above 0?

Regarding my original post. Given the parameters I must work with, what should I try, more or less counterweight?
 
If your cartridge calls for 2.5 to 3.5, I would go with 3.0, and same for anti skate, which your tonearm will go to at it's max. Play with it in the range available, so 2.5 to 3.0. Personally, I would go to a different cartridge. What cart is on there now?
 
kermit z said:
If your cartridge calls for 2.5 to 3.5, I would go with 3.0, and same for anti skate, which your tonearm will go to at it's max. Play with it in the range available, so 2.5 to 3.0. Personally, I would go to a different cartridge. What cart is on there now?
Click to expand...
It's called the groove tool, and it's the one that comes stock on the TT from Numark.

As you can see my tone arm goes from 2.5 back to 0. So you're suggesting all the way before zero?
 
You really need to get a scale. Looking at the picture the weight looks pretty far back on the arm tube. The closer the weight is to the pivot the more tracking force you will have. As others have said you should track at around 75% of the max force and then fine tune from there. Please get a scale so you know exactly what the force is. Doing this wrong can = trashed records and a dead suspension on your cartridge. Also the weight can turn more than 1 revolution so just keep adding.
 
revox-b77 said:
You really need to get a scale. Looking at the picture the weight looks pretty far back on the arm tube. The closer the weight is to the pivot the more tracking force you will have. As others have said you should track at around 75% of the max force and then fine tune from there. Please get a scale so you know exactly what the force is. Doing this wrong can = trashed records and a dead suspension on your cartridge. Also the weight can turn more than 1 revolution so just keep adding.
Click to expand...
The way it was originally set up was that I hovered the tone arm and adjusted the counter weight till it was hovering at the half way point above the platter.
This was taught to me by a member from here.
Is this not the correct way to do it?
 
For what it's worth, that's just how I learned to do it - find zero by getting the tonearm to "float" horizontally to the platter. (Get ready guys - I first have a bourbon and then I eyeball it.)

Revo-b77 is right. The tracking force gauge/scale will help you set an exact downforce, but the reason your cartridge has a range is, every cart sounds different on every turntable. I always initially set my tracking force in the middle of the suggested range and start listening. See item 7 in the first post above for making adjustments and remember, it will take some time to get things just where you want them to be. Once there, an exact tracking force becomes moot. Check you tonearm's tracking force dial and that's about where you'll want to be in the future.

If your taking the table to various gigs, however, or scratching with it, the gauge is probably a good idea.
 
cscottrun4it said:
For what it's worth, that's just how I learned to do it - find zero by getting the tonearm to "float" horizontally to the platter. (Get ready guys - I first have a bourbon and then I eyeball it.)

Revo-b77 is right. The tracking force gauge/scale will help you set an exact downforce, but the reason your cartridge has a range is, every cart sounds different on every turntable. I always initially set my tracking force in the middle of the suggested range and start listening. See item 7 in the first post above for making adjustments and remember, it will take some time to get things just where you want them to be. Once there, an exact tracking force becomes moot. Check you tonearm's tracking force dial and that's about where you'll want to be in the future.

If your taking the table to various gigs, however, or scratching with it, the gauge is probably a good idea.
Click to expand...

If I set my Counter weight to 2.5 what should I set my Anti-skate to?
 
There's no magic rule with antiskate. Try setting it at the same as the VTF, so 2.5.

If no amount of fiddling with the tracking force or antiskate helps, then redo your alignment. Use a different alignment. I like Stevenson for fat ellipticals and conicals.
 
SSaxdude said:
There's no magic rule with antiskate. Try setting it at the same as the VTF, so 2.5.

If no amount of fiddling with the tracking force or antiskate helps, then redo your alignment. Use a different alignment. I like Stevenson for fat ellipticals and conicals.
Click to expand...
Well, According to Numark The Stock Cartridge is pre-aligned at the factory.
 
Eh, I wouldn't trust that. Proper alignment isn't something that takes five seconds, and I can only imagine at the factory they're in a rush to get it done.
 
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