• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Please help!! What should be my next purchase

Dtripp83

New Member
Hello all, I am new to audiokarma and just got into vinyl in the last 2 years. Currently my system is a pioneer pl 630 with shure sc35c cartridge, Polk RTiA1 speakers, SMSL SA- 50 amplifier and behringer PP400 preamp. Music of choice is mostly old rock, early punk, synth pop and a little 90s gangster rap. After all of that my question is what should be my next steps to improving my system?

These are my thoughts (I have no idea what brand or models to conceder)
1. Better cartridge budget $200
2. Better preamp budget $300
3. Better amplifier $300

Thanks for your opinions and suggestions.
 
Register to hide this ad
Honestly for $300.00 one could improve on the preamp & amp both if they shop wisely.

What size room is this going to be in ?
Any size/placement constraints we need to know about here ?
Are you looking to keep the compact form factor of your current components -or- are traditional size components ok ?
Is phono the only source here ?
Is vintage gear ok here -or- are you mainly interested in new gear ?
Are there any other specific preferences we need to know about here (example tone controls Y/N) ?

Me,I'm old school,so I'd likely go after traditional/vintage gear myself.

Regardless,the key to choosing a "better" preamp for a system with a TT will be to look for a preamp that already has a respectable phono section.
For example: the Kenwood basic C1 & C2 preamps have nice phono sections,as does the Sanyo C55+,as well as the NAD 1300 among many others.
I've managed to score some of ^^^^ those ^^^^ very preamps for roughly 1/2 of the stated budget here.

Then I'd look at amps,lots of good budget choices for those too.
I've found Adcom to be a good choice here,GFA-535 & GFA 545 bipolar and GFA-5200 & GFA-5300/5400 MOSFET all can be had within this budget if you shop around.
Some good choices from NAD (2100/2400/2600) & Kenwood (Basic M1/M1A/M1D) here too.
And yeah I've scored some of ^^^^ those ^^^^ very amps for the other half of the stated budget.

Plenty other brands/models of amps out there as well.
Just gotta find the good gear that tends to fly a bit under the radar and was produced in decent quantities.

Plus,you can recoup some funds from the sale of the old gear as well,and put that towards future upgrades.

After I got the preamp/amp situation sorted out,then I'd look at areas like the cart/needle and whatnot.
As that way you'll have a better idea what to shop for there in terms of "synergy" with the rest of the gear that you plan to keep & use.

After that,,,I'd maybe consider shopping subwoofers...

JMO ~ FWIW

Bret P.
 
I am guessing (and just that--guessing) that since your current complement of gear is mostly new/newer that you are not racing to jump into the vintage market?

You did mention that you are back into vinyl, but did not mention any other sources that you use. A kind of "one stop/one shop" upgrade that you may want to consider are the new 2-channel Yamaha integrated amps. Depending on the model, they have built-in phono stages and also offer digital inputs, as well as regular line-level inputs. Again, depending on the model (and how much power you choose), they are well within your budget.

As for upgrading your cart, I really don't see the need, as there are upgrade styli available to fit your existing cart body, and lots of threads here on AK regarding upgraded styli for Shure carts--so keep on reading.

As for an upgrade to the Behringer PP400, the Art DJ II is available any day of the week for about $50, and IMO would be a significant improvement, if you decide to stick with an independent phono preamp.

Another place to maybe invest some money (mentioned above) is the addition of a powered sub to supplement the bottom end of your Polks. As for "bang for the buck", I have been impressed by some of the Dayton subs from Part Express--and they seem to always have one or more of them on sale.
 
Thanks brett and savatage,

Here are some answers to the questions you both asked

- I'm moving into a new apartment this month. The system is going to be in the main room which is the kitchen/dinning/living room lots of glass and brick with wood beams. This room is about 800 sq. Ft. (Should I think about building a smaller listening room or try to outfit the space?)

- I like new because it's easy to find but I'm not opposed to going vintage and getting more bang for the buck.

- I like the idea of the components disappearing with the compact parts but also would mind displaying big and beautiful components.

- as for other sources I would really like to keep it just vinyl at some point I may want hook up my iPod but no other components.

Thanks again,
Dustin
 
I just ran across a nad 1300 and a nad 2140. With a combined price just over $500 does that seem like a good deal? Also found a new Cambridge audio 651p for $160
 
If you like your SA-50 you would be wise to check out the very lengthy thread here on AK about the TPA3116 amps. I'm a firm believer that the gap between these little chip amps and "real" amplifiers is getting smaller and smaller. I own some very good amplifiers, SS, tube, IcePower, and monster 50 lb. chip amp. My various little chip amps, similar to yours, do not give up much especially for casual listening. The thread also discusses various pre amps and power supplies to get the most out of the 3116 chip. It's a fascinating read and may be well worth your time.
 
Thanks cub dog,

I easily distracted by shiny things when I started making this setup I was going for small and affordable. Now the more I see and read I want bigger and better. Unfortunately my budget keeps me in check.
 
Where are you located?
If you are close enough to New England I have (semi-vintage :cool:) Kenwood KC-208 with the remote, KM-208 and KT-88 well within your budget.
Very nice sounding gear and plenty of power...
 
Since no one has beat me to it yet, I will insert the obligatory comment to these sorts of threads: if you want to consider used at all - modern or vintage - subscribing to AK and gaining access to Bartertown is a great value. Lots of stuff at all price points from people you can hopefully trust a bit more than average. In fact, most of them seem painfully honest. I've found it a great way to educate myself about various gear and pricing. But beware, it will only feed your desire for more stuff!
 
True to that! And another one: if you want help and (possibly) some auditions - post your location.
You never know - maybe your next door neighbor is a member here...
 
I just ran across a nad 1300 and a nad 2140. With a combined price just over $500 does that seem like a good deal?
If they had both been completely gone through and recapped it may not be a bad deal,but if they're in original/used condition I'd say you could definitely do better.

Original/used condition,I'd say $300.00 - $350.00 would be my max offer for those pieces.

Example: I got my NAD Monitor series stack (1300/2600/4300) for < $500.00 and that 2600 power amp will stomp the snot outta that 2140 power amp,now dont get me wrong,the 2140 is indeed a very nice sounding power amp,I know that to be so as I also have the NAD 3140 integrated amp that infact uses the 2140 power amp section as it's power amp section,so I'm very familiar with the 2140 amp's sonics,but the whole 40wpc vs. 150wpc situation tends to skew things a bit in a comparison like that.

Where the 2140 amp is about finesse & politeness,that 2600 amp is more of a brute force to be reckoned with.

But yeah that 1300 preamp has a very nice phono section in it (MC & MM w/320,200,100pF & infrasonic & null switches),so that would be a good choice for sure.

From the NAD literature:
The 1300 was designed for the technically sophisticated audiophile who requires both state-of-the-art
sound and a high degree of operating flexibility

For listeners who are committed to the LP as an important source of music, the 1300 contains a high definition
FET-input phono preamplifier with excellent sound-stage imaging and astonishing resolution of
inner detail. No trace of slew-limiting or transient distortion can be found, even in high-level signal
peaks 25 dB above normal level. Selectable input capacitance and precise RIAA equalisation ensure that
the sound of each recording is accurately preserved

Using eight selected low-noise transistors per channel, this MM phono circuit provides unusually
effective rejection of radio-frequency Interference from nearby digital circuits, cordless phones, and
radio/TV transmitters. It is supplemented by an elegantly simple class-A preamplifier that provides quieter
play-back with low-output moving-cod pick-ups than most preamps provide with a high-output MM
cartridge

In addition to the features described on the preceding pages, the 1300 includes a special “Null” circuit
that electronically subtracts any monaural information from the audio signal. Using this feature, you can
easily align your cartridge for perfect electrical balance or adjust your FM antenna for minimum
multipath distortion

With its bi-directional taping circuits and a separate EPL circuit for an external processor, the 1300 offers
unmatched flexibility. All of its line-level circuits, including its unique volume and tone controls, have the
high headroom and ultra-low noise required to accommodate both today’s and tomorrow’s digital
sources. The dynamic range of the 1300, relative to the 2-volt maximum output of a CD player, exceeds
110 dB. But the most important characteristic of this preamp is the simplicity and sonic purity of its
primary signal path. Yet its price is surprisingly low in comparison with other preamps that don’t sound
as good and give you less control.

END.

Anyhow,yeah there's nothing inherently "wrong" with the current "chip" amp,it'll do what it needs to do,I just tend to prefer amps with robust power supplies and big old caps and such,as often a bit of "overhead" is seen as a good thing.

And for sure patience is your best ally in a search like this,but conversly you gotta be ready to pounce when a good deal does pop up.

HTH

Bret P.
 
When I got back into the hobby, I got new speakers and a new cartridge, and used/vintage everything else. I'm not sure that would be true today. I'm with cubdog on the amp suggestion. In terms of additional inputs and more power, bigger amps can do better, but in terms of sound quality, not so easily these days. With vinyl as your only source, you owe yourself a better phono preamp. Reading a few of the 3-star reviews on Amazon convinced me that folks who have heard better than the Berenger realize its limitations. If buying new, I'd suggest going beyond entry level by spending all of the stated budget, or a bit more. Bret makes a pretty good case for that NAD 1300, though!
 
One more combo that I came across today. Cambridge azur 651p pre amp for $175 and a 651a integrated amp for $315. these are both floor models at the local audio store. If this I truly a good deal then I could use the save money for the active sub a few of you had been talking about. Any thoughts on this. Thanks
 
The thing to remember is there really is'nt a right -or- wrong answer to a question like this,so all auggestions should remain on the table for consideration.
I just used that NAD 1300 as an example of the sorta vintage preamps that are out there that really lend themselves to being used with a turntable.
It's just dumb luck that the OP ran across one pretty quickly after it was suggested,but I mentioned something about that deal that in my earlier comments.
But it's definitely not the only option out there.

And yeah,clearly the amp situtation takes a backseat to the phono-pre/preamp upgrade.

And for sure integrated amps should be in the mix here as well.
Take that NAD 3140 I mentioned earlier,that too has a decent phono section in it.
And it also has the pre-out/amp-in option,so it can be used as either a stand-alone amp -or- preamp.
So that unit could easily be a viable candidate here as well,as would a more modern equivalent.

That's part of why some guys (like me) tend to prefer that sorta gear,it gives one numerous options to choose from.

One clever feature of that 3140 integrated is that it can be bridged and paired with another bridged 2140 power amp to more than double the wpc.
(Which largely explains why I've been keeping an eye out for a nice/clean 2140 for the right price...)

I'm just not that studied up on the new gear,that's all,which is why I mostly help folks ponder their vintage gear options.
And that's also why I leave the new gear talk/suggestions to those members who know more about that sorta gear.
But yeah me talking vintage gear is not to the exclusion of new gear,as I'm sure there's plenty of qualified new gear out there as well.

My intent was mostly just to point out that there can be some nice budget options to be had in vintage gear if you know what gear to look for.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
Last edited:
- I'm moving into a new apartment this month. The system is going to be in the main room which is the kitchen/dinning/living room lots of glass and brick with wood beams. This room is about 800 sq. Ft. (Should I think about building a smaller listening room or try to outfit the space?)

Cool space--sounds like one of those lofts that they build into a lot of repurposed industrial buildings--which also means that it probably has higher than 8' ceilings as well. Your Polks are very competent speakers, but in an 800 sq/ft open room, I would have to say that a powered sub should move up a notch or two on the priority list, as you are probably going to overwhelm them with the sheer total volume of the room (cubic feet-wise). I'll still stick to my guns regarding the Art DJ II knocking the Behringer out of the line-up, and maybe a new stylus for your cart, because the "front end" is critical, but that will still total less than $150-200, so you should still be able to grab a Dayton sub with the rest of your left-over cash.

- I like new because it's easy to find but I'm not opposed to going vintage and getting more bang for the buck.

I hear you on this one--I am a vintage guy, and you can find bargains on classic vintage gear if you hunt, but it is certainly easier to source something new and it comes with a warranty card, and a lot of vendors like Amazon and Crutchfield have very generous return policies if you just don't like what you bought when it arrives. I love the glow of my big analogue meters, wood cases and metal faceplates, but I also realize that (just like owning a classic car) anything can fail at any time for no apparent reason. Now you are down to three routes--pay a premium price for a professionally restored vintage unit--find one on the cheap, but be prepared to potentially put some money into it (with a professional tech), or--feel confident enough in your own skills to do repair/restoration work.

I'm not knocking vintage in any way--with the exception of a couple DACs, all of my gear is well over 25 years old--even my CDPs. Just making you aware of the potential pitfalls for going that route. My vintage gear has been lovingly cared for/restored by myself or by a qualified tech, and I expect it to outlive me, but if you are not technically or financially prepared for the "surprise" one day, it might not be the best option for you. Again with the car analogy--who owned it--how often or when was it last used--where was it stored--how was it "driven"? Age is age, and wear and tear is wear and tear, and if you "store" something in a non-climate controlled environment, you really don't know what you're getting. Not to discourage you, but just make you aware.
 
Lemme take the role of devils advocate here for just a second or two...
New stuff fails all the time just the same as vintage stuff does,does'nt really matter what it is,audio gear,home appliances,cars,it's largely all the same.
Worked as a tech for many years @ multiple new car dealerships,certainly long enough to learn that life lesson.

Only difference is the new "stuff" will hopefully have a vailid warranty when a failure happens,but even warranties have their own ins & outs as well.

One's POV on that deal likely depends on their experiences with that sorta thing.
For me that means any failures on my new "stuff" usually happens like a week or two after the warranty expired,LOL.

So that's one reason why being patient and researching any gear (new -or- used) is a good game plan.
And even buying new it pays to shop around some too.

Anyhow,to the Dtripp83,good luck on the hunt here.
And seeing that your in the windy city,there should be plenty of gear to choose from.
I say that as I'm just across the border in S.E. Wisc. so I scan the chi-town CL all the time,lotta good stuff out there.

Bret P.
 
You guys have been a huge help and your making the research process a lot easier.

This what I'm getting from what your saying. Research research research. Sit and wait for the right stuff at the right price new or old. If possible purchase a few different options try them a return/sale what doesn't work. Subwoofer should be higher on the list.

Should I look into upgrading speakers as well or just hold off for now? The new apartment Acoustically will be a nightmare. I did some measuring its 12ft ceilings.
 
Back
Top Bottom