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Polk RTA 11t - worth upgrading tweeters to RD0194-1?

mjcmt said:
I have the 11T's w/ the sl2000 tweeter and they are absoulutely wonderful w/ Cambridge Audio amplification and Linn speaker wire. The amplification and cabling is the key to a balanced sound. The polymide tweeter is very airy and reveals all the air and space in a recording. I wouldn't change mine.

These speakers are so good at imaging, detail, and midrange clarity that I wouldn't want to give it up by softening the top end w/ a different tweeter. I also find they are very balanced and full sounding w/ the grill cloths "on" vs. "off". They only give up a little in resolution w/ the grills "on", but the coherance in sound is worth the trade off. I'm sure that they were designed to be used w/ the grills in place (typical of vintage speakers), unlike modern speakers w/ no grill cloths.
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I agree. The airyness, clarity and detail is the best I've ever heard. You can improve that even more with some anti-cables speaker wire or some plain 12 ga romex although the anti-cables are easier to bend. For HT you can buy a used CSI3 or CSI5 center and upgrade the tweeter to a SL2000 and it sounds like a SDA rig http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=175305&d=1256155710 . All you need is a 3" hole and some notches on each end for the terminals.

At first you may not like the antis because they will sound a little compressed or hollow but that's because the instrument and vocal separation is to die for.

Nice setup btw.
 
mjcmt said:
These speakers are so good at imaging, detail, and midrange clarity that I wouldn't want to give it up by softening the top end w/ a different tweeter. I also find they are very balanced and full sounding w/ the grill cloths "on" vs. "off". They only give up a little in resolution w/ the grills "on", but the coherance in sound is worth the trade off. I'm sure that they were designed to be used w/ the grills in place (typical of vintage speakers), unlike modern speakers w/ no grill cloths.
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It isn't a matter of "softening" the sound. It is a matter of removing a nasty spike in response. The RDO-194's are just as airy, detailed and clear in the midrange (actually, more so I would say) while providing a more balanced sound overall.

Basically, Polk screwed up with the original tweeter and decided to use what they had learned in the intervening years to make a tweeter that sounded the same, and yet preformed better.

There is no loss in this mod.
 
cornhulio said:
At first you may not like the antis because they will sound a little compressed or hollow but that's because the instrument and vocal separation is to die for.
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I never heard the Anti-cables and may someday try them or some other magnet wire. When you mention compressed sound that scares me away. I'm sensative to this characteristic and it would be a deterant for me. But I can see how it would give the the black space around the instuments you talk about, and this is a positive thing for me.

The reason I currently use Linn cabling (but could easily consider others) is because like Linn gear, that I have owned, CA's products likewise have wonderful PRaT and clarity too, so Linn's cabling compliments CA's gear as well. I discovered when I dragged the Linn speaker wire and interconnects out of storage and found the same wonderful synergy w/ Cambridge Audio too. "That British fast and detailed sound."

Thank you for the nice compliment on my system.
 
mjcmt said:
I never heard the Anti-cables and may someday try them or some other magnet wire. When you mention compressed sound that scares me away. I'm sensative to this characteristic and it would be a deterant for me. But I can see how it would give the the black space around the instuments you talk about, and this is a positive thing for me.

The reason I currently use Linn cabling (but could easily consider others) is because like Linn gear, that I have owned, CA's products likewise have wonderful PRaT and clarity too, so Linn's cabling compliments CA's gear as well. I discovered when I dragged the Linn speaker wire and interconnects out of storage and found the same wonderful synergy w/ Cambridge Audio too. "That British fast and detailed sound."

Thank you for the nice compliment on my system.
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"Black space" is a good way to describe it. If for decades you haven't heard that dead silent black space, it may take some time getting used to. For me it has taken clarity and detail to the next level.
 
I have a pair of RTA-11T's as well and I run them with my Cayin tube amplifier. Suffice it to say I will not be messing with perfection.

Before you start taking things apart, give them a listen and see, again and again and again.

Cheers
 
Obviously everyone should listen and decide for themselves what they want here.

When I first got a pair of Polks with the SL2000 tweeter I heard quite a raspiness
and sibilance on vocals from time to time and found the speakers A OK performers
I put them back in the pile and listened to vintage speakers I liked better, ADS.

It wasn't till later while searching around for other things I'd found out about that
actually documented 12k spike in the SL2000 an POLK had a new replacement one
that was an updated an improved version that basically plays flat and cleaner that
I decided to order the new tweeters and try the speakers again, well a rather large
improvement to say the least here, no longer any raspiness and a pleasure to listen
to that I now find them excellent performing speakers, that was on monitor 10B's.

So Yah, I like many others find that new tweeter a decidedly better performing unit.
 
mjcmt said:
I'm not so sure of this statement. They sound smooth and clean to me "in my system" w/ modern amplification driving them.
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My statement was actually factual, whether you like the sound or not. There was a major flaw in the SL 2000, and Polk went back and fixed it.
Some people won't believe me saying this, but I will dig up the response graphs and post them here. The science and measurements don't lie.
 
Polk installed the SL-2000 for quite awhile on many models, up till 1992 on the 11t. I am not quite sure when they "went back" and fixed the flaw other than on their nice silk dome replacements. I'm not particularily a fan of the SL-2000; on the Polks I had with the SL-2000, if I noticed any harshness occurring it was more likely happening in the vocals/midrange area making them a bit forward at louder listening levels, not at 12000Hz(doesnt most music occur quite abit below 12k?).... it would be nice to actually see the graph of the much bandied about flaw.
 
AFAIK there were never any official response charts released because they are considered proprietary and believe me I have asked for them. Some unofficial ones were done by a individual but not by Polk. The only official statement I've seen from polk is where they say something like "dome tweeters tend to have an extended resonance at 12k". My quote is from memory and not intended to be word for word. And I might add that they weren't talking about any specific tweeter with that comment.

I have not heard any such resonance in my 1000's of hours of listening to them. I have tamed any brightness in mine for roughly $3 each or less.
 
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tubeboob said:
I have a pair of RTA-11T's as well and I run them with my Cayin tube amplifier. Suffice it to say I will not be messing with perfection.
Cheers
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It is excellent to hear your comment confirming these speakers have superb synergy w/ tube amplification. I've thought this would be true because of their tight and tuneful bass, superb midrange clarity, crystalline airy highs, as well as 94db efficiency, and an easy 8 ohm load.

I have tried mine w/ the Audio Electronics (Cary) Super Amp MkII tube poweramp driving them. I do not presently own a good preamp, so I tried the preamp out from my Cambridge Audio integrated amp. The preamp/ poweramp match was not good so all the great qualities of my tube amp were not revealed. When I get a tube preamp I will be trying the 11t/tube amp combo again.

Thanks for your insite into this combo.
 
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cornhulio said:
If you upgrade one x-over or tweeter at a time, it's much easier to do a before and after evaluation. Otherwise by the time you do the upgrade and let them burn in, you can easily forget exactly what they sounded like before. A left (new) vs right (old) comparison is indisputable and helps identify the smallest improvements or disappointments as well as major ones.
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How do you compare differences in soundstage or imaging if you only upgrade one speaker at a time?
cornhulio said:
AFAIK there were never any official response charts released because they are considered proprietary and believe me I have asked for them. Some unofficial ones were done by a individual but not by Polk. The only official statement I've seen from polk is where they say something like "dome tweeters tend to have an extended resonance at 12k". My quote is from memory and not intended to be word for word. And I might add that they weren't talking about any specific tweeter with that comment.

I have not heard any such resonance in my 1000's of hours of listening to them. I have tamed any brightness in mine for roughly $3 each or less.
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In issue 2 of "The Polk Speaker"(1989) the resonant peak is mentioned by Polk. Resonant peaks can dramatically raise distortion, so it's possible you can no longer hear to 12k anymore.
 
I happen to also be in the camp that quite enjoyed the SL2000 equipped speakers. In the past I have owned Monitor 10b, Monitor 5b and SDA 1c. I also owned a pair of Monitor 5jr+ with the silk dome tweeter (I never pulled it to check for a model number) and I thought it was inferior to the SL2000.

At the end of the day I think this is about personal taste. After Polks I moved on to Infinity and the wonderful EMIT k tweeter. Some consider the EMIT to be harsh and bright, IMO it is detailed and revealing... to each their own. What I am trying to say is should you really care how flat the freq. response curve is, if in your opinion "flat = dull"?

Oh, and before it is asked... I have no problem hearing 22khz, maybe more, but the test didn't go higher.
 
rroobbcc said:
I happen to also be in the camp that quite enjoyed the SL2000 equipped speakers. In the past I have owned Monitor 10b, Monitor 5b and SDA 1c. I also owned a pair of Monitor 5jr+ with the silk dome tweeter (I never pulled it to check for a model number) and I thought it was inferior to the SL2000.

At the end of the day I think this is about personal taste. After Polks I moved on to Infinity and the wonderful EMIT k tweeter. Some consider the EMIT to be harsh and bright, IMO it is detailed and revealing... to each their own. What I am trying to say is should you really care how flat the freq. response curve is, if in your opinion "flat = dull"?

Oh, and before it is asked... I have no problem hearing 22khz, maybe more, but the test didn't go higher.
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Same here, I've taken a few of those online frequency tests and I can hear all the frequencies available loud and clear even at low volumes. I've done side by side tests between the RD0194, Peerless, Vifa, SL3000 and the SL2000 and prefer the SL2000 over all of them. The SL3000 was a close 2nd with a fraction less clarity and detail as the SL2000.
 
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Stereophile did a test of the RTA11t. I owned a pair of these for many years and they basically bashed the treble really bad. A huge spike at around 11-12.5 khz, a roll off beyond that and a weak lower treble and upper midrange sound.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/polk-rta-11t-loudspeaker-measurements

I repurposed my Old Polk woofers and replaced the SL2000 ( which while good in some ways, is very not accurate or really great sounding)) with a Vifa $15.00 tweter, and it beat the crap out of the SL2000 easily!

The SL2000 sound okay only if one has rolled off hearing of the upper ranges. Then the 10-12khz boost is not an issue, in fact maybe it sounds better to some with hearing impediments.

But the lack of output in the midrange gives it a lack of clarity.
 
Hi, I know this thread is ancient however I would bet there are more than a few that come by and read it who are contemplating buying RD 0194's from Polk Audio. I have, SDA-SRSb's, Monitor 7's Monitor 5's and RT 8's. Built/hacked a set of SL 2000's for the RT 8's. Bought 4 RD 0194's for the SDA-SRSb's. Bought RD 0194's for the Monitor 7's and the Monitor 5's had the Peerless tweeters so no need screwing with them, the Peerless tweeter is just grand. So, all that said. If I were not keeping my Polk Audio speakers I would keep the SL 2000's. Since I am keeping the SDA's and the Monitor 7's I replaced those with the RD 0194's. Now I have 3 sets of SL 2000 tweeters. OK what now? I can now, if I want completely change the sound of my 7's and my SDA's at will by popping the SL 2000's back in. I have not done that yet. Catch my drift ?
 
I had bone stock '87 SDA 2Bs. They came w/ the SL2000 which were dry scratchy and annoying.being a Polk Forum member I got the RDO-194s and never looked back or sounded better. A fairly cheap mod to do w/ results. Yes music and sound is subjective but these worked.
 
A-yup

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To the point of the OP, I have RTA-11t's and swapped out the SL2000's for RTO-94's and Peerless. By far the Peerless were best. IMHO anyway. If I sell them, the SL2000's go back in. If you can fin d them, give the 'ol Peerless a try, too.
 
kve777 said:
To the point of the OP, I have RTA-11t's and swapped out the SL2000's for RTO-94's and Peerless. By far the Peerless were best. IMHO anyway. If I sell them, the SL2000's go back in. If you can fin d them, give the 'ol Peerless a try, too.
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The Peerless have different parameters and are a slightly different size. They are not the proper tweeter for those speakers.
 
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