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Possible next turntable Thorens TD 403 DD. Any reason not to consider?

ClayTune

ClayTune

Well-Known Member
So the Thorens TD 403 DD is apparently one of the newer models released some time in the last couple of years, it intrigues me.

I am currently rocking a Pioneer PLX1000 which is great, however the useless idiot in me is always considering shinier, more expensive items which would constitute a supposed "upgrade" (though truly, I have no complaints at all about the pioneer PLX1000, I just "want" for lack of better word, another turntable, for shits and giggles).

Of the few videos about it on youtube, they all seem to be in German. I cannot find a singular English review of this table, the vast majority of them are of the 402DD which has the straight carbon fiber tone arm, Whereas this one has the new and improved Thorens S shaped arm.

Anyway, any thoughts on why I should or why I shouldn't?
 
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Here's some spec info

NEW THORENS DIRECT DRIVE TURNTABLE TD 403 DD

With the new model TD 403 DD Thorens completes the line of direct drive plug-and-play turntables of the 400 series. Visually a true Thorens, the new TD 403 DD features the same proven smooth-running direct drive as the successful TD 402 DD, but sets itself apart from its smaller brother with a more massive 1.4 kg and 22mm-thick Die-cast aluminum platter and the TP 150 audiophile tonearm also used in the new TD 1500 model.

NEWLY DEVELOPED THORENS TP 150 TONEARM

The new TP 150 tonearm is also used on the newly introduced Thorens TD 1500 model and is similar to the TP 124 used on the new TD 124 DD. It has an effective mass of 14 grams, is adjustable in height and azimuth and is equipped with a standard SME connector, so headshells can easily be switched or other cartridges mounted.
The anti-skating is set by a sliding weight in the base of the arm, which is adjusted on a nylon thread guided over a ruby bearing.
 
I relatively recently bought a Thorens TD-403 DD, even though I didn't really need it :) It is a beautiful machine. With the stock Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, it sounds very solid and weighty with lots of presence - really a very entertaining sound.

I have lots of cartridges and with its J-shaped arm and SME-type headshell, I was hoping to use it for cartridge swapping. The arm is very adjustable but it isn't as easy to adjust as the one on my Technics SL1200. The stock headshell and cartridge are actually relatively heavy and I found that I couldn't balance lighter headshell/cartridge combinations in the default counter-weight configuration. The counter-weight has a removable back portion (via two screws) and I had to remove it in order to use my more typical headshell/cartridges. But then the tracking-force dial doesn't reflect reality and so you have to use tracking-force scales. I imagine in its default configuration, the turntable was really designed to move up to heavier MC cartridges.

So, if you like cartridge swapping, this turntable isn't ideal but it is fine if you want to stick with one cartridge or occasionally upgrade the cartridge.

This is a review in German but you may be able to translate it to English in your browser - in Chrome, you can right-click on the page and choose 'Translate to English'.

https://www.lowbeats.de/test-komplett-plattenspieler-thorens-td-403-dd/

I hope that helps.
 
Crab33 said:
I relatively recently bought a Thorens TD-403 DD, even though I didn't really need it :) It is a beautiful machine. With the stock Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, it sounds very solid and weighty with lots of presence - really a very entertaining sound.

I have lots of cartridges and with its J-shaped arm and SME-type headshell, I was hoping to use it for cartridge swapping. The arm is very adjustable but it isn't as easy to adjust as the one on my Technics SL1200. The stock headshell and cartridge are actually relatively heavy and I found that I couldn't balance lighter headshell/cartridge combinations in the default counter-weight configuration. The counter-weight has a removable back portion (via two screws) and I had to remove it in order to use my more typical headshell/cartridges. But then the tracking-force dial doesn't reflect reality and so you have to use tracking-force scales. I imagine in its default configuration, the turntable was really designed to move up to heavier MC cartridges.

So, if you like cartridge swapping, this turntable isn't ideal but it is fine if you want to stick with one cartridge or occasionally upgrade the cartridge.

This is a review in German but you may be able to translate it to English in your browser - in Chrome, you can right-click on the page and choose 'Translate to English'.

https://www.lowbeats.de/test-komplett-plattenspieler-thorens-td-403-dd/

I hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Definitely.

One aspect I found of particular interest was the way the anti-skate feature works. With the ruby slider? I never saw one like that before.

On the subject of tone arm relative to cartridge weight can't that be resolved by getting a headshell which allows for a top weight to be screwed in? That was the case with my PLX1000 where I ordered a viviline cart off LPgear which was "too light" for the tone arm but adding the headshell weight on top quickly fixed that issue.
 
Yes, there is a metal slider for the anti-skating that you can move with any pointy tool, such as a small screwdriver. The ruby refers to the anti-skating bearing.

You could indeed buy headshells with screw-in weights but I already have my cartridges in headshells. Also, adding weight to the headshell increases the effective-mass of the tonearm, which is not desirable with the higher compliance cartridges.

With the stock headshell and 2M Blue cartridge, which weighs 7.2g, the counter-weight is pretty close to the pivot once you've dialled in the tracking force. So, a lighter cartridge in the stock headshell may be a problem in the standard counter-weight configuration. Fortunately, you can lighten the counter-weight as I indicated. But their solution is not as easy and elegant as the screw-in auxiliary sub-weight of the SL1200.
 
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Thorens knows about direct drives about as much as Exxon knows about superfoods. To me this whole new "DD" affair with Thorens is more of a sacrilegious middle finger that's alienating the fandom than anything else. The TD-403DD could be a spectacular turntable with phenomenal performance - or not. The tonearm could be fabulous - or just a cheap reiteration of the classic BTD-12S made to look like an EMT. I don't know! I'd expect that if you command Thorens prices, you better deliver Thorens legacy - and you better not use blasphemy, such as 'direct drive TD-124' (with a suspected Asian motor no less) in your marketing material. To me that's insulting. Wanna shiny new DD? Why not go to the horse's mouth and get a new Technics?
 
tnsilver said:
Thorens knows about direct drives about as much as Exxon knows about superfoods. To me this whole new "DD" affair with Thorens is more of a sacrilegious middle finger that's alienating the fandom than anything else. The TD-403DD could be a spectacular turntable with phenomenal performance - or not. The tonearm could be fabulous - or just a cheap reiteration of the classic BTD-12S made to look like an EMT. I don't know! I'd expect that if you command Thorens prices, you better deliver Thorens legacy - and you better not use blasphemy, such as 'direct drive TD-124' (with a suspected Asian motor no less) in your marketing material. To me that's insulting. Wanna shiny new DD? Why not go to the horse's mouth and get a new Technics?
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Considering that the new Thorens company has nothing in common with the original Thorens except the name (and that all their current turntables are made in Taiwan), I would say skipping it altogether would be a winning move.
 
I quite like the TD 1500. It's got one Thorens logo too many, but it seems well executed. Almost a modern TD 160. :)
 
The “ NewThorens” price range is ridiculous for what they are, no way I’d recommend a “New Thorens” to anyone:crazy:

I’m a vintage guy but appreciate new turntables because it promotes the hobby, so don’t take the above as a slam against new tables, it’s not.


VR
Andy
 
Ok: For a new 'table, what would you buy instead of a TD 1500?

(I would not swap my 125/2 for anything, but the 3009 Improved is going off it.)
 
KentTeffeteller said:
It's not, not even close. Want a DD, buy the Technics, be done with it. Want a Thorens, buy a classic real Thorens like a good TD 124, TD 125, TD 150, TD 160 or 165.
Click to expand...

I have owned all but the 124 and 165. Have you personally used a TD1500?
Regards,
Jim
 
Crab33 said:
Yes, there is a metal slider for the anti-skating that you can move with any pointy tool, such as a small screwdriver. The ruby refers to the anti-skating bearing.

You could indeed buy headshells with screw-in weights but I already have my cartridges in headshells. Also, adding weight to the headshell increases the effective-mass of the tonearm, which is not desirable with the higher compliance cartridges.

With the stock headshell and 2M Blue cartridge, which weighs 7.2g, the counter-weight is pretty close to the pivot once you've dialled in the tracking force. So, a lighter cartridge in the stock headshell may be a problem in the standard counter-weight configuration. Fortunately, you can lighten the counter-weight as I indicated. But their solution is not as easy and elegant as the screw-in auxiliary sub-weight of the SL1200.
Click to expand...

What's your quality review? This is still a pricy unit. How much does it weigh? How's the Chasis? How's the tone arm? Plinth? etc.
 
adnick said:
The “ NewThorens” price range is ridiculous for what they are, no way I’d recommend a “New Thorens” to anyone:crazy:

I’m a vintage guy but appreciate new turntables because it promotes the hobby, so don’t take the above as a slam against new tables, it’s not.


VR
Andy
Click to expand...

Are you Anti-direct drive?

I personally don't mind when a company who used to specialize in Belt drives experiments, as I am very open minded. I currently have a PLX1000 which to me feels as good as any higher end technics i've dabbled in.

I am just getting the itch to get another turntable with unique values.

What would you recommend in the 2k price range then?
 
KentTeffeteller said:
It's not, not even close. Want a DD, buy the Technics, be done with it. Want a Thorens, buy a classic real Thorens like a good TD 124, TD 125, TD 150, TD 160 or 165.
Click to expand...

My argument against this reasoning would be that I like unique stuff. And a thorens DD with the type of anti-skate this features is that. I have a PLX1000 and it feels as solid as any technics 1200 i've touched. I just want another table with unique values. And it's not like I am going the cheap route either, this Thorens is more expensive than the technics 1200 line.
 
About three months ago I bought a brand new Thorens TD 1500 model with TP 150 tonearm. It replaced my Clearaudio Concept.
It has a Charisma MC-M cartridge.
Absolutely amazing. I am now at the end of my sound chase. For 40 years I have been trying to get my sound as if Red Garland Quartet or Lightnin Hopkins were in the room. Each upgrade has got closer. It's over now. Done.
 
ClayTune said:
Are you Anti-direct drive?

I personally don't mind when a company who used to specialize in Belt drives experiments, as I am very open minded. I currently have a PLX1000 which to me feels as good as any higher end technics i've dabbled in.

I am just getting the itch to get another turntable with unique values.

What would you recommend in the 2k price range then?
Click to expand...

No not at all, have a Denon DP 75…


VR
Andy
 
Maybe Thorens is paying for the type of quality one would expect from their contracted drive manufacturer? I'd be inclined to go Technics for DD, but I do remember reading that Thorens reboot was trying to make quality products.
 
ClayTune said:
I just want another table with unique values. And it's not like I am going the cheap route either, this Thorens is more expensive than the technics 1200 line.
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It's a mass produced consumer grade appliance. How unique can it get? It'll probably disappear off the new Thorens catalog like many of their recent models. They're so neck deep in 'experimenting', they've lost their identity alright... They sure look confused.

I had no idea the Thorens was more expensive than the Techie. Get it, jeez, what are you waiting for? That's one unique legacy no-one can challenge. You can like it, you can hate it, but no one can say you're not getting your money's worth.
 
ClayTune said:
My argument against this reasoning would be that I like unique stuff. And a thorens DD with the type of anti-skate this features is that. I have a PLX1000 and it feels as solid as any technics 1200 i've touched. I just want another table with unique values. And it's not like I am going the cheap route either, this Thorens is more expensive than the technics 1200 line.
Click to expand...

For that much money, I expect a much better DD motor than an OEM one. Sorry. I also expect it to last as long as Technics, be as heavy duty in daily use, and perform as well or better. Anything less, is simply put, poor value.
 
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